programmer help?
- Thread starter easydes
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If you send a switched live into pin 4 you will not be able to use the I/0 switch, because the switched live backfeeds the PCB.
A very common wiring fault, we often see it - not on our ones, of course!
The on/off breaks the permanent live but not the neutral. The sw/L from the clock then backfeeds the boiler.
All Vaillants are made this way so that the OH stat drops the controls, this functionality was used in the early Vantage cylinder which is why they could use a three port valve. The OH stat drops the live from the perm live input to pin 3.
A very common wiring fault, we often see it - not on our ones, of course!
The on/off breaks the permanent live but not the neutral. The sw/L from the clock then backfeeds the boiler.
All Vaillants are made this way so that the OH stat drops the controls, this functionality was used in the early Vantage cylinder which is why they could use a three port valve. The OH stat drops the live from the perm live input to pin 3.
simond said:
Unfortunatley this is totally incorrect. This was only a problem with the VCW series. All new Ecotec and previous ecomax's CAN be wired using the switched live coming in only to no 4.
If OP still out there wire it to no 4. Everything will be fine. My info is based on current data supplied directly from Vaillant and not outdated
info that simond is using and obviuosly wiring his boilers up wrongly with.
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If you go to the Vaillant ecoTEC instruction manual page 29 you will see that they mandate all clock and thermostat connections must start at pin 3 and terminate at pin 4.
Whilst I don't make the boilers it is generally accepted that a CORGI installer is obliged to follow manufacturer instructions.
Are you going to request that the manual is re-written or are you going to put right all your installs to date? As you know, CORGI can pull you up on this.
Whilst I don't make the boilers
it is generally accepted that a CORGI installer is obliged to follow manufacturer instructions. Are you going to request that the manual is re-written or are you going to put right all your installs to date?
As you know, CORGI can pull you up on this.Glad you are back. I have spent this week talking to Vaillant and meeting their engineer who basically said you are talking out of your a***.
In answer to your first question about M I's, not if they are incorrect as you yourself ponted out with the burner seals
All boilers now can be wired directly into number 4 and as my previous post says it has been this way since the end of the VCW series.
All my 800's are wired via 3 & 4 but not 600 or 400 series.
Bring on CORGI, but I suggest before you do this you go back to an up todate training school and stop dwelling and fitting you boilers as though you live in the past.
It is you who will need to re-wire your systems not me.
Oh by the way, there is not a mains connection 'flap' on the ecotec, the entire pcb cover comes off, so I suggest your engineers get a new pair of specs to look for swarf.
As you mention in your previous post you obviously DO need to learn a lot from me, or at least get your self back to Rochester for up to date training, or is it that you are now off the tools with the conglomerate size of your company and rely on your engineers reports.
I rest my case.
In answer to your first question about M I's, not if they are incorrect as you yourself ponted out with the burner seals
All boilers now can be wired directly into number 4 and as my previous post says it has been this way since the end of the VCW series.
All my 800's are wired via 3 & 4 but not 600 or 400 series.
Bring on CORGI, but I suggest before you do this you go back to an up todate training school and stop dwelling and fitting you boilers as though you live in the past.
It is you who will need to re-wire your systems not me.
Oh by the way, there is not a mains connection 'flap' on the ecotec, the entire pcb cover comes off, so I suggest your engineers get a new pair of specs to look for swarf.
As you mention in your previous post you obviously DO need to learn a lot from me, or at least get your self back to Rochester for up to date training, or is it that you are now off the tools with the conglomerate size of your company and rely on your engineers reports.
I rest my case.
If you have 'spent a week talking to Vaillant' I suppose you must be much better informed than me.
As you are a sole trader I am surprised that Vaillant can afford to invest this kind of time with you.
Your memory seems a little short, so I will remind you of something earlier in this thread.
I note that you are NOW saying you have always wired up combis (8 series for the non Vaillant savvy reader) between 3 & 4. When the OP told us he had a ecoTEC combi a few days ago your advice was to the contrary - you told him to just use pin 4 - and you were happy to argue about it.
Would you like to edit your post?
Finally, the Vaillant MIs have never changed in respect to pins 3&4; ecoTEC, ecoMAX, TurboMAX, aquaPLUS etc. all say the same. What may have changed is the quality of Vaillant technical support.
You haven't installed those boilers to manufacturer instructions and therefore they are defective. Get your Vaillant techhy to put it in writing, or else you could get pulled up.
As you are a sole trader I am surprised that Vaillant can afford to invest this kind of time with you
.Your memory seems a little short, so I will remind you of something earlier in this thread.
I note that you are NOW saying you have always wired up combis (8 series for the non Vaillant savvy reader) between 3 & 4. When the OP told us he had a ecoTEC combi a few days ago your advice was to the contrary - you told him to just use pin 4 - and you were happy to argue about it.
Would you like to edit your post?
Finally, the Vaillant MIs have never changed in respect to pins 3&4; ecoTEC, ecoMAX, TurboMAX, aquaPLUS etc. all say the same. What may have changed is the quality of Vaillant technical support.
You haven't installed those boilers to manufacturer instructions and therefore they are defective. Get your Vaillant techhy to put it in writing, or else you could get pulled up.
The 800 series I have wired via 3 & 4 simply because I was using a Siemens REV23rf and it is easier to use 4/5 core flex for a neater job. L & N from boiler l&n and switch live from 3 to receiver unit and back to 4. This is/was not because M I's said so.
Admittedly I assumed through not clicking on the link the op supplied that he was refering to a 400 or 600 series.
It does not retract from the basic fact that wiring straight to 4 is allowable.
Vaillant are just showing a typical wiring diagram for external timer/room stat. It does not state in their training manual that it is a 'must' to do it like this.
Are you implying that with a 400 or 600 series on a fully pumped system with zone valves that all the power to this has to come from no 3?
Yes Vaillant do invest a lot of time in me compared with most I suppose. Probably do to the quality of my installations, inc wiring! the fact that I refuse to fit any other make and turn over via my internet shop. The fact that I also represent them in the local solar market helps as well.
They obviously recognise a good installer to back when they see one!
Yes I do get priority tech support if I ever needed them service calls along with many other Vaillant installers.
Yes I am biased towards them. If I thought they were c*** I would tell them so. As you know by now I speak my mind freely to whoever, if i'm wrong I admit it openly and freely. If i rarely have any probs with Vaillant I go over normal communication routes, I have even been known to deal with a certain head of theirs in a forceful way at one of their Vaillant dinners and got the results I wanted to benefit me and all Vaillant installers nationwide. I will compliment where necessary but also 'moan' equally. Whats the point just winging to other installers about products at the Plumb center counter. I keep quiet to them and take it to those that matter.
You obviously must be a decent company in fitting Vaillants, but you must get yourself booked on a current training course rather than us having these disagreements on here.
These days I commisssion all vaillants with my FGA and laptop.
These days I am fitting all Vaillants with the VRC400 and only use Unistors via the VR65 for system/open vent installations.
All my installations are open to any inspection as told to all my customers at the time of quoting the job.
Please bring your self up to date with current models, not just by reading M I's.
Admittedly I assumed through not clicking on the link the op supplied that he was refering to a 400 or 600 series.
It does not retract from the basic fact that wiring straight to 4 is allowable.
Vaillant are just showing a typical wiring diagram for external timer/room stat. It does not state in their training manual that it is a 'must' to do it like this.
Are you implying that with a 400 or 600 series on a fully pumped system with zone valves that all the power to this has to come from no 3?
Yes Vaillant do invest a lot of time in me compared with most I suppose. Probably do to the quality of my installations, inc wiring! the fact that I refuse to fit any other make and turn over via my internet shop. The fact that I also represent them in the local solar market helps as well.
They obviously recognise a good installer to back when they see one!
Yes I do get priority tech support if I ever needed them service calls along with many other Vaillant installers.
Yes I am biased towards them. If I thought they were c*** I would tell them so. As you know by now I speak my mind freely to whoever, if i'm wrong I admit it openly and freely. If i rarely have any probs with Vaillant I go over normal communication routes, I have even been known to deal with a certain head of theirs in a forceful way at one of their Vaillant dinners and got the results I wanted to benefit me and all Vaillant installers nationwide. I will compliment where necessary but also 'moan' equally. Whats the point just winging to other installers about products at the Plumb center counter. I keep quiet to them and take it to those that matter.
You obviously must be a decent company in fitting Vaillants, but you must get yourself booked on a current training course rather than us having these disagreements on here.
These days I commisssion all vaillants with my FGA and laptop.
These days I am fitting all Vaillants with the VRC400 and only use Unistors via the VR65 for system/open vent installations.
All my installations are open to any inspection as told to all my customers at the time of quoting the job.
Please bring your self up to date with current models, not just by reading M I's.
The problem is, Dave, that both of us want to be right, especially under the glaring eyes of the forum.
I hope you won't take this the wrong way but perhaps we are both quite similar in taking a pride in our quality, and when someone suggests that isn't so we become very defensive.
We too install VRC400 WC and ebus uniStors etc, and although we like Vaillant we do not just fit their products, because in some areas we believe they do not offer the best solution.
In fact I can't think of any company we would be prepared to represent exclusively! We honestly found the new 400 series Vaillant to be very disappointing, and won't be fitting any more.
Since their charismatic UK MD Simon passed away in a car crash a few years back we have found the Vaillant operation has been gradually taken over by Gloworm personnel and operating principles. Many of the old staff have left and the 400 series is the most Glowormy Vaillant we have seen to date. It is also the first DOA Vaillant we have ever fitted, and we do over 100 a year.
Trivia: Did you know that the designer of the VRC400 is Michael Schumaker?
I hope you won't take this the wrong way but perhaps we are both quite similar in taking a pride in our quality, and when someone suggests that isn't so we become very defensive.
We too install VRC400 WC and ebus uniStors etc, and although we like Vaillant we do not just fit their products, because in some areas we believe they do not offer the best solution.
In fact I can't think of any company we would be prepared to represent exclusively! We honestly found the new 400 series Vaillant to be very disappointing, and won't be fitting any more.
Since their charismatic UK MD Simon passed away in a car crash a few years back we have found the Vaillant operation has been gradually taken over by Gloworm personnel and operating principles. Many of the old staff have left and the 400 series is the most Glowormy Vaillant we have seen to date. It is also the first DOA Vaillant we have ever fitted, and we do over 100 a year.
Trivia: Did you know that the designer of the VRC400 is Michael Schumaker?
yes I agree that since the very sad passing of Simon things have gone progessivley downhill. The action I mentioned I took was in fact to bring to the attention of uk head of sales that Vaillant engineers could not get spare overnight and that since Glow worm had taken over this area they were being made to wait until they could order a certain amount.
I said to him at this dinner that why should i fit Vaillant when their engineers could not get parts to replace any faults next day. he did not know about this problem, but the next day I was informed by my Vaillant engineer that all hell had broke loose in that vaillant engineers were being called at random to see if this was really the case, and lo & behold they found it was! I am glad to say things have now changed. Aslos the priority tech /service number now bypasses glow worm and goes straight to vaillant I am told.
I am very lucky that my local vaillant engineer is also a personal friend and because of this I get constant updates on install tips etc.
I agree that we are both similar in our ways and standards, Iam an old fashioned dinosaur who onlys wants the best for his customer and I expect the same from any manufacturer I deal with.
The only DOA Vaillant I ever fitted was a Ecomax pro 28, but luckily my Vaillant engineer met me there after work at 7:30pm to fit a new display pcb. Unluckily it was not all that was wrong with installation! I had a new Grundfos Alpha that was shorting live to earth and then blew main pcb! and then a honeywell 2 port valve that was faulty from ne and kept tripping rcd. Not being that good at fault finding I was struggling with 3 seperate different faults at once!
perhaps we should call a truce now and just respect each others different knowledge
I said to him at this dinner that why should i fit Vaillant when their engineers could not get parts to replace any faults next day. he did not know about this problem, but the next day I was informed by my Vaillant engineer that all hell had broke loose in that vaillant engineers were being called at random to see if this was really the case, and lo & behold they found it was! I am glad to say things have now changed. Aslos the priority tech /service number now bypasses glow worm and goes straight to vaillant I am told.
I am very lucky that my local vaillant engineer is also a personal friend and because of this I get constant updates on install tips etc.
I agree that we are both similar in our ways and standards, Iam an old fashioned dinosaur who onlys wants the best for his customer and I expect the same from any manufacturer I deal with.
The only DOA Vaillant I ever fitted was a Ecomax pro 28, but luckily my Vaillant engineer met me there after work at 7:30pm to fit a new display pcb. Unluckily it was not all that was wrong with installation! I had a new Grundfos Alpha that was shorting live to earth and then blew main pcb! and then a honeywell 2 port valve that was faulty from ne and kept tripping rcd. Not being that good at fault finding I was struggling with 3 seperate different faults at once!
perhaps we should call a truce now and just respect each others different knowledge
Regarding your last point, with pleasure.
We've asked Vaillant to bring over the 6XX ecoTEC plus series with the diverter in it and filling loop still intact, as they sell them in Germany. The VR65 would then be pointless. It was only developed for the UK market because they thought we weren't ready for an internal diverter valve.
I think it's a shame we have to fanny around with messy external filling loops and external motorised valves when we could have it all in a six series for the same price as a combi. Viessmann do it; even Worcester sell a retro fit for their system boilers where you can put back in all the stuff they remove for the UK market.....
Simon
MOD 2
topic is ????
this is not a message board
We've asked Vaillant to bring over the 6XX ecoTEC plus series with the diverter in it and filling loop still intact, as they sell them in Germany. The VR65 would then be pointless. It was only developed for the UK market because they thought we weren't ready for an internal diverter valve.
I think it's a shame we have to fanny around with messy external filling loops and external motorised valves when we could have it all in a six series for the same price as a combi. Viessmann do it; even Worcester sell a retro fit for their system boilers where you can put back in all the stuff they remove for the UK market.....
Simon
MOD 2
topic is ????
this is not a message board
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