Question re payment plan for a doors, windows and warm roof rebuild on a garden room.

[fandyman]

That company that I requested detailed payment plan told me initially a small deposit would be sufficient (that is why I explored more details with them) but after two f2f meetings when we come down to details expect me to pay 50% when materials are delivered (after the initial 35% deposit).

Another thing is the materials for this job is really about 50% of the total price so I suppose if anything upfront they should be asking for 10k before the job is started and 10k after it is signed off but then shouldn't companies have some cash flow and do not need to be paid upfront for materials?

I am also not allowed to ask for receipts for materials - is this normal?

 

[ETAF]

No no - the builder won't agree for me to pay for the materials as that's not how anyone works in this country apparently (that's what I am being told).

Not true , in my experience & daughter who had an extension built also provided SOME of the material , i suspect the builder is also making a profit off the materials as well.

Not a building work, but interiour work, I have supplied ALL the materials and paid just for the labour in stages
We did have a kitchen fitted at my sons and one of the quotes - for Howden Kitchen - supplied the kitchen and as my daughter also had a howdens Kitchen - i know the quote to supply was broken down and the material was uplifted a LOT ..... and that builder insisted on supplying ALL the material and would not quote for labour only - he has done a lot of work for other people , and was recommended =- BUT the price was 1/3rd more than the 3 other quotes we got !!!!!!!

 

[fandyman]

Not true , in my experience & daughter who had an extension built also provided SOME of the material , i suspect the builder is also making a profit off the materials as well.

Not a building work, but interiour work, I have supplied ALL the materials and paid just for the labour in stages
We did have a kitchen fitted at my sons and one of the quotes - for Howden Kitchen - supplied the kitchen and as my daughter also had a howdens Kitchen - i know the quote to supply was broken down and the material was uplifted a LOT ..... and that builder insisted on supplying ALL the material and would not quote for labour only - he has done a lot of work for other people , and was recommended =- BUT the price was 1/3rd more than the 3 other quotes we got !!!!!!!

Interesting. Maybe we are just unlucky contacting mostly such companies.

They are usually claiming they cannot provide 10 year warranty if they are not sourcing the materials (which is nonsense in my view but hey). When I actually asked one company if they would work on the labour only basis they said they would have to inflate their labour price to adjust to the 20k they quoted for materials + labour which really opened my eyes...

To be honest, I am not sure how these companies are able to operate in this way - does nobody ask any questions these days whatsoever?

I would be perfectly happy not to have their warranty (or have some agreement on a shorter timeframe as these type of companies take your money and go bust in few years anyway) and provide my own materials to save a bit of cash.

 

[fandyman]

I have also tried to contact traditional builders but nobody seems to be interested in this type of work it seems?

Can you share with me how you find some decent companies to quote as I am slowly losing my mind with this?

 

[ETAF]

Can you share with me how you find some decent companies to quote as I am slowly losing my mind with this?

very difficult , we have found it very very difficult to get people to quote , and if they do come to site to get the actually get a price
We contacted 6 different builders - to remove part of a tree stump and remove the 6' wall thats was falling down and rebuild - with either brick or blocks
only 3 of the 6 actually turned up - one even phone me while at TP looking at the brick and he photographed and discussed nearest match of bricks - and then disappeared , no sign of the 2nd and the 3rd - we got a price while looking at the job and shock hands there an then , so no real idea of the price comparisons - BUT we had tried for over a year to get someone .....

My daughter eventually got 2 people quote for the job , but a few let them down , not turning up etc

I feel for you its so frustrating now , it was bad before covid , when having a bathroom refurbished , same issue , but now it seems builders have more work then they can cope with

 

[fandyman]

Thanks @ETAF

I would really like to know why that is happening.

When we asked for extension quotes at the start of 2023 we were given astronomical values for a single storey 4x5m extension with gable roof. The range was between 60-80k + VAT. It did not even have anything special and was shell only really - this is just a living room extension so no kitchen etc.

We seem to be having same experience with this even simpler job now over a year later - either super high quotes and pay at least 50% upfront or 80% ideally or no interest at all.

It really seems like they do not want to get the work (I can't believe they have so much backlog of other jobs that they do not want to quote new clients as we are willing to wait 6 months or longer for them) and I am confused why that is.

I just do not understand when this madness ends?

 

[ETAF]

I just do not understand when this madness ends?

nope ,
It will end when demand slows down and builders are more available - likely when the housing market picks up again and people move instead of do work on home. extensions, loft conversions etc
locally you will see a lot of new houses being built and a lot of renovations - pretty much every road has a house with scaffolding on , and i know theres planning permission either granted or going to appeal for around 2000 homes

daughters extension finished just before xmas - single story - included some electrics and batten wall with a pocket door , and some other work inside - not much else £50K - which is all she had , and the builder knew the budget at the beginning and there was NO slack - so a lot of discussion.... ev en then things had to be dropped

but the range was about the same , 40-70K and she had to drop things OFF - orginally it included fitting a howdens kitchen and flooring - which she ended up doing her self

 

[Notch7]

I wouldn't pay upfront for anything to strangers.

You should pay for progress after it's happened.

I wouldnt do any work for strangers without a deposit

When I was running a joinery company it was 50% deposit

 

[Notch7]

Thanks @ETAF

I would really like to know why that is happening.

When we asked for extension quotes at the start of 2023 we were given astronomical values for a single storey 4x5m extension with gable roof. The range was between 60-80k + VAT. It did not even have anything special and was shell only really - this is just a living room extension so no kitchen etc.

We seem to be having same experience with this even simpler job now over a year later - either super high quotes and pay at least 50% upfront or 80% ideally or no interest at all.

It really seems like they do not want to get the work (I can't believe they have so much backlog of other jobs that they do not want to quote new clients as we are willing to wait 6 months or longer for them) and I am confused why that is.

I just do not understand when this madness ends?

I think if it was me I would keep searching for a builder

I dont know what builders youve had to quote, what you need is a one man builder with a lad, who gets in other trades.

I suppose it depends what your top budget is, my thought is that long term, a proper extension gives you more options in extending your house and it increases the property value.

 

[noseall]

I wouldn't pay upfront for anything to strangers.

You should pay for progress after it's happened.

Whilst a lot of that maybe true, it tends to be a two way street. We always like the customer to see value on site, before asking for dollars. However, if costly items need bringing on board early on, then there is nothing amiss in asking the customer to secure the finances.

 

[fandyman]

@noseall AFAIK builders usually have their accounts with suppliers so besides the fact they should really have a good cash flow they should not need to take a hefty deposit on the excuse of no cash to purchase some materials to start the work.

I agree if there is no way to start the work without a costly items but paying 85% upfront, like in my case, is not really how it should be done...

 

[noseall]

@noseall AFAIK builders usually have their accounts with suppliers so besides the fact they should really have a good cash flow they should not need to take a hefty deposit on the excuse of no cash to purchase some materials to start the work.

I agree if there is no way to start the work without a costly items but paying 85% upfront, like in my case, is not really how it should be done...

Whether they need it or not is irrelevant. Trust is a two way street. Risk is also something that needs to be assessed. Unusual items, that are outside the scope of the builders credit accounts criteria, will need payment. When you have said and done all, it is the customer that ultimately pays and benefits.

 

[fandyman]

Let's say we agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Notch7]

@noseall AFAIK builders usually have their accounts with suppliers so besides the fact they should really have a good cash flow they should not need to take a hefty deposit on the excuse of no cash to purchase some materials to start the work.

I agree if there is no way to start the work without a costly items but paying 85% upfront, like in my case, is not really how it should be done...

They probably have to pay for the Prefix Hybrid Warm Roof upfront.

I used to build timber orangeries, we sometimes bought in the joinery and the supplier wanted big deposits up front, so that’s what we charged our customer.

As I said, you would be better doing a proper extension, then you wouldn’t have this big deposit scenario.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Let's say we agree to disagree on this one.

Just tell the builder you want a bigger last stage payment, so that you can be happy with the work before final payment.

He will either agree, or you will have to find somebody else.

Same with initial deposit

You can make any terms you want, you are the paying customer. But Nobody has to accept them.