Questions to ask Brickie repointing work

[BathDIY]

Have had some bad repointing work done on my house abutment and (despite my efforts) the builder refuses to come back and put it right. So I need to get a decent guy in to redo the repointing work.

I can ask basic questions i.e. How deeply would you rake out joint? What mix would you use (although not sure what the right answer to this one myself)?

Are there any qualifications I should be asking about?

What insurance should they have?

What's the best place to source a decent brickie? Have asked for recommendations but I think it's quite tough as I get the sense that joe public knows enough to know what good repointing ie.

Having talked to a few brickies sourced via Mybuilder, Rated People, etc. about the project, but not really confident with any of them to date.

 

[SpecialK]

Ask for references?

 

[^woody^]

TBH, I don't think there are any bricklayers on any of the "my builder" type sites. Chancers and charlatans yes, proper bricklayers no.

For qualifications you could ask for a Spirit Level in Bricklaying, failing that apart from the common questions you could just give him a basic specification of how you require the work to be done and the standard expected and advise him that it will be checked during the works, and you will only pay for work that is in full accordance with the specification, if he can't achieve it don't bother quoting. Then if that don't scare off the blaggards, you may be in with a chance.

 

[BathDIY]

TBH, I don't think there are any bricklayers on any of the "my builder" type sites. Chancers and charlatans yes, proper bricklayers no.

For qualifications you could ask for a Spirit Level in Bricklaying, failing that apart from the common questions you could just give him a basic specification of how you require the work to be done and the standard expected and advise him that it will be checked during the works, and you will only pay for work that is in full accordance with the specification, if he can't achieve it don't bother quoting. Then if that don't scare off the blaggards, you may be in with a chance.

So the mybuilder type sites are out, understood, where would you start your search if you were new to an area?

 

[^woody^]

Building sites.
Local jobs with bricklayers working and you can see their work in progress, and past work if you ask them.
Any approved lists at the council or other organisations/charities of properly vetted firms

For many years I have seen a certain contractor's vans at many places whilst on my travels. Nice shiny vans, several types, they always seem busy, starting early finishing late (hard workers?) and the praise I hear from hearsay and the facebook recommendations must mean they are surely good respected builders?

Well they happened to work on a neighbours drive a few years back. Music blaring away, shouting and swearing, one day a few can's of Carling appeared. Mess in the road and on the paths during the work and the cement stains are still there now. The drive looked nice, but rutted about a year after, and the front border dipped which as also caused the tarmac path to dip and crack. And yet the person there thought it a good job.

More recently before the lockdown, they happened to be building a long boundary wall where I parked by another job so I could see work in progress daily. Again, mess all over the place, no regard for the public trying to walk past, wall uncovered to get saturated with rain, lorry tracks over the grass verges, and yes the trademark permanent cement stains on the path. When finished the wall was crap, and within week the efflorescence appeared to compliment the cement stains on the path.

I can only assume that their customers don't actually know what a good job is, and just go on recommending them. I know they are not even cheap!

So the moral is, don't rely on other's opinions. See the work in progress and how it looks a long time afterwards. And tell them what you require them to do, not let them tell you what they want to do.

 

[johnny2007]

For qualifications you could ask for a Spirit Level in Bricklaying

 

[BathDIY]

I can only assume that their customers don't actually know what a good job is

I think that's the key issue, I always go for trade or personal recommendations, clearly, that's not enough.

Difficult to monitor building sites at present with COVID.

Any thoughts on Trustmark, or buywithconfidence.gov.uk?

Also how common is it for brickies to have the "Spirit Level in Bricklaying" qualification?

 

[johnny2007]

Also how common is it for brickies to have the "Spirit Level in Bricklaying" qualification?

Not uncommon.
To check it you need your own spirit level

 

[sxturbo]

For re-pointing few people want to do it, it's a horrible messy Jon, however there is some people out there that love doing it/ saw a gap in the market for it.

I usually find local firms that specialises in pointing (I've had to have both my houses done)

The first company was very expensive but there workmanship was 2nd to none, they done mostly heritage buildings and done a lot of work for national trust, I employed them first time round and they done a wonderful job. They always sent there dad to price work.

2nd time round in the new house the old man was going a bit senile and couldn't understand a word he said I think he said it was going to cost 7k to do my gable wall, so unfortunately I had to decline them for doing the work which is a shame.

So after trying another couple of firms I had no luck people weren't interested and my side access is very narrow and they just didn't want to do it. So I ended up on my builder, only 1 bloke offered to come take a look. He wasn't very good, left a mess and the pointing although it's in, it's not too great, the verticals between bricks looks like he's used his fingers to squish it in. I also had to tell him I wanted it to be raked out to 25mm, as he initially only done 10.

So far it's lasted a winter so we'll see how it goes.

 

[jeds]

Are you in Bath? Yellow limestone and all that?

 

[sxturbo]

first house was built in early 20's and was lime mortar, thrown up cheaply and quickly I don't think the mortar had enough lime in, all the houses were once owned by local council and had been re-pointed very badly in the past, I'm guessing in the 80's.

2nd house is a 70's built Fairview house.. thrown up quickly and cheaply again for as little cost as possible, again they seemed to scimp on cement as the mortar is very soft, walk down my street and pretty much all the houses need doing, most homeowners don't realise or don't care (probably a bit of both)

My next door neighbor has actual loose bricks where the mortar had disintegrated, while I had mine done and the scaffolding was up he was asked if he wanted his done as it would be cheaper for him as if covered the cost of the scaffolding already, showed him the loose bricks and everything, went away thought about it come back and said "I'm gonna leave it for now there's a second skin of brick and there isn't any water coming in so it'll be alright" I couldn't believe it. There not short of a few Bob either.

Anyway back to your question,

When asking for whites ensure they advise the correct mortar, if it should be lime mortar, ensure they are using hydraulic lime with NO cement, if they advise a cement lime mortar turn them away.

If it's just sand cement mortar the house is built with they can use whatever they like.

Make sure they take out to 25mm at least.

If there is any broken or blown bricks make sure these are replaced as part of the work scope.

I can't advise on finding the right firm to do the work, it's literally hit and miss whatever method you use.

 

[Diver Fred]

I think that's the key issue, I always go for trade or personal recommendations.

Any thoughts on Trustmark, or buywithconfidence.gov.uk?

There has been enough suggestions on how to find trade recommendations on this site.

Trustmark I don't know much about but strikes me as 'Quality' scheme where the paperwork is more important than the job in hand. Until I've seen otherwise I'll treat with caution.
BuyWithConfidence - no idea.

Do go and ask at builders merchants - not necessarily nation chains but more local ones with only few branches, they'll have better local knowledge.

 

[cdbe]

When I was a labourer I did all the pointing (or jointing), not the bricklayers, who were busy laying bricks. I wouldn't imagine it's cost effective to pay a bricklayer for what is essentially semi-skilled work.

Have you considered having a go yourself? If your wall is modern brickwork with sand and cement mortar (like that on your lintels post) then it's not that difficult, attention to detail is more important than skill for a "bucket handle" finish. It's very satisfying.

Here's a job my neighbours have just had done by a "professional" with a smart van, no raking out and he appears to have just smeared mortar on top of the existing, but as others have said what can you say when the neighbours think he's done a fantastic job?

 

[^woody^]

I wouldn't imagine it's cost effective to pay a bricklayer for what is essentially semi-skilled work.

No pointing is skilled and very important to get right, and is not just running a trowel or jointer across the joint.

 

[cdbe]

Ok. Specialist pointing and re-pointing of historical buildings and stonework etc is highly skilled work, which I suspect 90% of today's bricklayers couldn't do. Bucket handle pointing of a modern house with sand and cement mortar is semi-skilled work that can be successfully done by a diyer with the required attention to detail, as many on here have demonstrated.

My first house, built in 1890, had the most beautiful but ageing tuck pointing on the front facade, I didn't even attempt to repair it myself and couldn't find anyone who would attempt it so reluctantly covered it with render.