Rain getting in...

[zosie]

The plaster and wallpaper in my living room keeps getting soaked in severe storms and water literally pours in above the window through the wallpaper (coming through the stone) and also pours in through the wood door frame around my front door and there is visibly damp on the wall between my window and door. This last winter my living room ceiling got a soaking, became discoloured and cracked, I'm worried it may come down or the timber up there may rot if I don't get this water problem sorted.

The pointing is in excellent condition.
A bodge firm over 15 years ago put in replacement wall ties, it wouldn't surprise me if they did something wrong when installing them.
There's no cavity insulation.
The outer stone is visibly porous and crumbly.
The roof can't be the culprit as I've had it replaced.
My upstairs bedroom windowsil gets thoroughly wet each winter, expands and blisters even though the silicone around my window outside is in perfect condition.
The house was built in 1935.

I've had a builder round who says not to bother putting water repellent spray on my masonry and he wants to put in cavity trays above my front door and ground floor window. In your opinion is that the way to go? If my living room ceiling got soaked and it's a clear foot above the front door then surely having a new cavity tray above my front door won't stop my ceiling from getting wet? Also surely if an abnormal amount of water is getting into my cavity, it would roll off either side of the cavity trays still and get my inner skin damp?

My dad advises not to have any structural work carried out and to apply water repellent spray onto the stone every 10 years to stop the water from getting in in the first place.

Can I have your advise please as I'm confused and don't know what's for the best and I don't want to throw money down the drain on work that won't cure the problem.




Ruined wallpaper and mould above my living room window and on my ceiling.





Water coming through the wallpaper above my window.





Water pooled on my windowsil.





My ceiling above my front door.





My living room between the window and door.





The living room, note the ceiling is a foot higher than the door.





The house after a storm. You can see my stone looks wetter than the neighbours either side.





What I have to constantly wipe off my walls in my bedroom upstairs each winter. The walls in my bedroom don't appear to get wet, there's a bit of wrinkled wallpaper but no pouring water coming out of anywhere but this area has no bricks or plaster behind the wallpaper (don't ask!) and so there must be a lot of moisture in the cavity and mould forms here.

 

[^woody^]

Yes you probably need cavity trays. All windows and doors should have one above them.

For a waterproofing, look for a silane/ siloxane based product. These will last more than 20 years.

 

[williamglossop]

There's probably more than one issue. How long has it been like that? Have you had any other work at all undertaken that may have lead to this? It cant have been like that for many years as you'd have addressed it before now.

Cavity trays might work - but they weren't there when the house was built and it wouldn't have leaked like this then.

Is it even cavity wall construction? When were the windows doors fitted? Has anything been done to these that may have lead to this amount of water getting in?

Sealing the stone work might help, but I doubt that amount of water is getting in via the porosity of the stone.

 

[williamglossop]

Also, dont rule out the roof entirely - I understand that youve had it done, but assuming that cant possibly be the problem may lead you to barking up the wrong tree

 

[^woody^]

The roof can't be the culprit as I've had it replaced.

That front roof verge looks wrong.

There is no apparent overhang of the tiles, this will allow water to enter the wall and run down within it. It needs to be corrected.

 

[lostinthelight]

looking at the window cill and reveal widths it looks like the walls vary in thickness quite a bit, some cavity,some solid?
litl

 

[zosie]

Sorry for the slow reply, I hadn't noticed the responses.

My dad's bought some waterproofing spray now and a man should be applying it in the next week or two. I'm hoping that helps otherwise I'll have to get cavity trays next year. I've found a builder who'll replace the ground floor only cavity trays at a good price but I'm fearful of having structural work done because everybody that comes and does work on my house balzes it up, just the thought of structural work sends shivers down my spine, I'd be terrified to let a guy start hacking out my stones.

@ williamglossop - Water coming through the wall has been happening before I bought the house 8 years ago. Before I bought it I pointed out to the surveyor the wallpaper in one area of my living room that was peeling off the wall and asked him why it's like that and if it's an issue. He said it was nothing to worry about but clearly he was wrong. The issues definitely have got worse the past few years but I figured that might be down to us having more severe storms. In 2008 I had a bodge new roof but he left the old roofing felt and didn't touch the cement underneath the roof. In the summer of 2012 I got a guy to take out the old flue that's about a foot to the right and down from my bedroom window as I thought that may have been where water was getting into. That made no difference (he didn't do a good job as he cracked one of my stones in the process, I got a roofer to put silicone over the crack later). I had another roof in the summer of 2012 which was a disaster, followed by another roof in autumn 2012. Either last year or the year before I got my dad to silicone any cracks around my pointing, there were just a few cracks, not many but I thought I'd best try that just to see if that helps but that made no difference.

It is a cavity wall, apparently it's full of debris. The windows and door have been there long before I bought the place.

Regarding the roof, all the houses on my street have a roof overhang of about an inch or less. Before the latest roof was put on I had bad water problems. I'm praying the last roofer did it right. Could the amount of cement or a bad cement job between the roof tiles and stonework lead to my problems? Here's some pics of the disaster roof of the summer of 2012 in progress (not the latest roof), can you spot anything untoward that could lead to my issues? I.e. like is there supposed to be such a big gap between the tiles and stone?






I haven't any photos of the latest roof in progress as they did it in a flash whilst I was at work. Incidentally my latest roof still leaks at both chimneys so they obviously weren't perfect roofers.

Some hairline cracks have appeared in my cement about a year or two ago.





@ lostinthenight - No, my front wall should be the same thickness from the top to the bottom.

 

[vinn]

As above, you dont have any undercloak at the verges.
The verge should project about 50mm from the face of the wall - same with the tile & felt projection over the gutter at the eaves: about 40mm to 50mm.
The cracks in the verge pointing are possibly due to the mix being too wet ( easy for the roofer to point).

You have strap or ribbon pointing on the stonework - this is the worst kind of pointing possible. It literally acts as a ledge for retaining water, plus its prone to hairline cracking, & instead of being a lime mortar mix, strap pointing is always a cement heavy mix. It also looks cheap & cheesy.

You could gain easy access to your loft gable and perhaps look down the front cavity for snots on ties, or blockages or whatever?

You would need to ID you chimney stacks and best to provide photos if you want advice in that direction?

 

[zosie]

What's undercloak?

Are you sure my pointing is inferior? A builder that I had round once said it's quality pointing, the best kind you can get. Here's a slightly better pic of it (this is where I had the flue removed from).







Regarding the roof leaks: -

It's leaked underneath the chimneys I suspect since before I bought the house.


Right hand side of the house under where my chimney is.




Right hand side of the house under where my chimney is.




Left hand side of the house under where my neighbour's chimney is.




Right hand side of the house.







I was expecting the last roofer to give me new lead around the chimneys but that's not what I ended up with, he left the old but said he replaced some lead underneath where you can't see. Each Christmas/New Year I ring him to tell him my roof's leaking and he comes back to squirt some Leadmate at it. I'm thoroughly hacked off and depressed about the roof, I've had four and all have leaked. I've just resigned myself to going up into the loft whenever the weather's severe to check any water is accumulating in the correct places and not damaging my ceiling. Every time I go up there I get the shakes cos I'm so traumatised over roof leaks and the because of the depressing hours I've spent in my loft with a torch seeing to my past leaks. The latest roof is by far the best I've had, the current leaks aren't so bad to compared what I've had to endure with past roofs.

 

[JohnD]

looking at the photos, I think perhaps it is getting in where your roof and your neighbours meet, and the tiles don't match. This tends to make the party wall wet. It is possible to fit a sort of concealed valley strip under the join by removing tiles each side then relaying over the top, but I reckon you need to start by finding a better roofer.

 

[zosie]

Like a fibre glass sheet thing between each house under the tiles? I didn't see my roofer put them in but he assured me he did. & neither neighbour gets water problems inside their houses.

BTW, regarding the water coming through my walls, I'd like to point out it only happens with severe winds and lashing of rain for days. If there's no wind and it pours it down endlessly it's fine, it's only ever done it when there's strong wind and rain which continues for days. It can be fine for the first few days and then water just pours in all at once after a few days of storms, hence my theory about my stonework being waterlogged rather than it getting in through a gap somewhere.

 

[JohnD]

this kind of thing

And something comparable in the valley

I am not a roofer, but we have a roofing section here.

The roofers seem to like lead flashing round chimneys. Chemicals, sprays, paints, silicone and adhesive treatments are bodges.

 

[^woody^]

Listen, tell the roofer that did the work to sort the roof out or you will take out a claim in the county court. You have six years to take any such action, so none of this 12 month guarantee nonsense.

Otherwise you are going to be messing about for ever and a day with that roof.

Its all crap, and it needs correcting and and old lead replaced not sealed with Leadmate.

 

[vinn]

As above.
But for info. I dont see how either of your neighbour's couldn't be having similar water ingress at the chimney stacks - and on the right at the bonding junction?
The soaker/cover flashing at the LH stack appears to be wrong - in the brief detail showing.
The stack flaunching shows green, & green means moss and growth and possible cracks and deterioration.

Your eaves have a projecting soffit that keeps most wayward dripping away from the structure.
With the fresh more detailed photos I now think that perhaps you dont have strap pointing but its still too proud, indicating hardly any rake out, & still cement based.

Have you peered down the front cavity yet?

 

[zosie]

@ JohnD - Thanks for the video link.

I'm guessing my last roofer had to have done something wrongly around the chimneys for it to keep leaking, wish I could take a look myself and try to figure out what's wrong.

@ Woody - But if each time my roof leaks and I call the last roofer back and he comes promptly and that stops it from leaking for a while, surely I won't have a leg to stand on in court will I? Like it wasn't leaking a month ago when I last looked. & won't courts only be interested in major mess-ups? The leaks I get by the chimneys are slow trickles, nothing major. Those leaks were at their worst on Boxing Day and pretty bad but my dad bangs on all the time about how everyone's roofs leak in severe storms.

@ Vinn - When you first asked me to peer down my cavity I didn't understand how, but now thinking about it I vaguely remember there may be a brick missing in the loft which I could possibly hang a mirror into with a torch and get a glimpse if I lie precariously across the joists in filth. (Joy, not something I want to do). What's a "snot on a tie"? I do suspect there could be a problem with the wall ties as the replacement wall ties firm did the first roof (before I bought the house) and they made an utter balz up of that, they didn't lay the tiles staggered so they must have been proper cowboys. What would I look for for me to tell if there's an issue with the wall ties exactly?