Rats soil waste pipe

[Al@n]

I've been hearing noises for the past several weeks and finally suspect the rats are getting in via the soil waste stack as I could hear the noise coming from the base of the stack.

Pics attached

I removed the floorboards and at the base of the stack I could see droppings and a pungent smell!

Looking at the base of the stack I can't see any obvious signs of entry but alarmingly someone has caked the area using expanding foam!

I suspect there must be a hole somewhere near the stack and allowing the rats to get in.

To try and remedy this and hopefully prevent rats from getting in, I'm planning on removing all the expanding foam and use a mix of ballast/cement to box in/cover all the area up until the neck of the waste pipe

Would this be the best approach?

 

[Wayners]

Id put some food down and see if it gets eaten.
You can also buy cheap wildlife cameras to capture a video of the rat.

As for filling in. A weak mix of 7 to1 will do.

 

[ree]

OP,
The soil pipe is not centred in the salt glaze socket. Why not dig down - & root out all the soil around the socket including the back & RH side of the socket, & then carefully examine the back & the RH side?
Perhaps the drainage is broken somewhere out of sight, & thats where the rats are coming from?

If you have children or a baby in the house then I would immediately get professional help - maybe theres a rodent service provided by your council?

 

[accelerator]

To clarify:
- Where would the rats be coming from? Outside?
- What are the rats getting into? The void under your floor?
- Are you able to look at the outside of the building to search for holes?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

No obvious holes dug by Vermin to suggest they're entering by means of a broken pipe, but doesn't rule it out. If there's access to the drain run from a Manhole further downstream, it may be worth getting the run surveyed with CCTV to ascertain the condition of the pipework before doing anything too drastic. It could then be possible to repair any damage or breaks in the pipe with a Resin impregnated patch or sleeve, installed from the downstream chamber. Removes the need for expensive and disruptive excavations inside the property.

Much as I don't like them, Rat Blockers are available to insert into pipework to prevent Rats going up the runs into the building. That of course, is assuming they are entering via the drains. I would also be looking for evidence of any digging outside around the perimeter of the building, droppings, chewed up material and obvious rat run trails where they've been moving about on the surface.

 

[318Mike]

Beware rats can carry Weil's Disease.
Always wear rubber gloves when handling anything where there are signs of rat activity, droppings or urine.

My guess is the pungent smell in the floor space is via a hole the rats have made in the stack pipe. This is because rat droppings normally dry out quickly and rarely smell of anything we can detect.
Rats moving over expanding foam would be almost silent. Rats moving inside a stack pipe can be easily heard. Rats are capable of gnawing/chewing through most materials and your stack pipe would not present a problem.

If you lift the first manhole outside your home and see rat droppings on the dry side of the gutter that will confirm their route to your property. It would also the safest place to bait them.
Rats are prodigious breeders, eliminate the present problem before it becomes a serious issue. Do it yourself and you will be prepared for the next time, which will come when the weather gets colder and wetter.

 

[Al@n]

Update

I've excavated more of the area, removing the expanding foam and can see a deep hole in the corner which passes beyond the brick work of my property.

Upon closer inspection I can also see the waste pipe which connects to the man hole in my neighbours garage!

I've tried to open my neighbours manhole but it's stuck solid!

I've placed a CCTV camera and thrown in some cheese and peanut butter hoping to entice and catch the rats coming through, so far no luck, I've probably scared them off for now, so it's a waiting game!

Once confirmed that's the entry point, I'll throw in a wet mix of ballast/cement

 

[318Mike]

Good choice. Peanut butter and Nutella will draw a rat better than any other bait Ive used!

 

[ree]

OP,
Well done for doing the rather inexpensively obvious & digging out as I suggested: "Why not dig down".
So far no need for expensive CCTV camera work.

Presumably its an old solid wall - ie. no cavity?
When you block up why not dig outside & replace the holed bricks - & then fill the inside hole with your sand & cement & chippings.
Please post a pic of the stiff manhole cover? Is there also a manhole on your property?
Do you have shared sewage with the neighbour?
Do any old external toilet compartments remain on either property?

 

[Al@n]

Looks like I may have missed the mark

Just past 4am the CCTV camera triggered a recording and captured footage of the rat, sniffed around for a few seconds before disappearing underneath the floorboards.

Pic attached

It appears it's come through elsewhere, not the hole I suspected!

We have a WC on the ground floor, which is tiled over, could it be coming through the pan connector below the floor?

I've checked around the property and cannot see any signs of entry.

I'm struggling to figure out how it's getting in, could be more, I've no idea at this point.

I'm going to reposition the camera and place it underneath the floorboards to see if I can capture the path the rat takes which will hopefully give me some clues.

Any other ideas?

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I would still advise to CCTV or smoke test the drains to identify any damaged pipework that could be offering Vermin a route in and out, it's the most likely culprit. (Unless of course you're happy to excavate and expose the entire drain run!) Afraid that manhole cover is going to have to come up somehow, unless there's another anywhere along the run. It would be in your Neighbours interests too, as if the drains are shared, Ratty will be next door too!

Rats have been known to enter/exit through a ground floor WC pan, so I would suggest you keep the seat down and something heavyish on it to block any possible route there. They can easily chew through plastic, but are usually attracted to light, unlikely they'll opt to dig out from underground unless they're sure they'll get to the surface.

Should the drains prove not to be the issue then you can move onto other possible options, although you say you've checked externally. There are usually obvious signs of Vermin presence, e.g. droppings, chewed up paper/plastic etc., 'rat runs' (they prefer cover, will only run across an open space if they have to), and holes, with freshly dug soil at the entrance. They can squeeze through quite small spaces, so even a broken airbrick could be enough to offer them an entrance/exit.

 

[Al@n]

After several days of monitoring via the CCTV camera, I am pretty certain that the rats are entering the suspended floor via the ground floor WC as they are constantly returning to the area where the WC is located.

They are huge and clever, I laid down a rat trap underneath the suspended floor with peanut butter lo and behold the peanut butter has gone but the rats didn't trigger the trap!

I also threw a packet of poison in the man hole, 2 days later it's no longer there, which makes me think they are entering via the manhole.

I've captured at least 3-4 rats on the CCTV camera and every day I've been baiting poison underneath the floorboards.

I attempted to install a 4 inch rat trap on the waste pipe however given the ackward angle and it's a bit deep the concrete/mortar surrounding the 4 inch pipe is in the way, pic attached

The only thing I can think of is to chip away the concrete/mortar on the left hand side and on the right side where the 4 inch waste pipe is which will hopefully enable me to fit the rat flap. The way it's positioned a 4 inch extension pipe wont work either.

Is this the right way to go about it, any other suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[DP]

OP,
Well done for doing the rather inexpensively obvious & digging out as I suggested: "Why not dig down".
So far no need for expensive CCTV camera work.

Presumably its an old solid wall - ie. no cavity?
When you block up why not dig outside & replace the holed bricks - & then fill the inside hole with your sand & cement & chippings.
Please post a pic of the stiff manhole cover? Is there also a manhole on your property?
Do you have shared sewage with the neighbour?
Do any old external toilet compartments remain on either property?

Welcome to the forum.
While some of your suggestion are valid, building practices this side of the pond are different. Rarely have outside toilets here

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I have reservations about Rat Flaps, the risk is they can either cause solids to catch and block the pipe, then if the whole lot gives way under the pressure behind it, they can then cause further issues downstream.

My advice is, to get the drain surveyed, identify any issues, (i.e. breaks in the pipework), and get those repaired to deny Ratty an exit. They are clever, now they know there is an easy route in and out, they'll use it. (And tell their friends.) Block that access off, and they'll have to find another way out. Hopefully a long way from your property.

 

[Al@n]

It's been 48 hours since I fitted the rat flap and so far the CCTV has not captured any rat activity, I think it's safe to say the rats have been entering via the ground floor WC waste pipe.

I purchased a cheap inspection camera which connects to your phone and managed to get the camera below the WC pan waste connector and can see no signs of entry, other than alot of rat poo in the vicinity!

The inspection camera is limited as it doesn't tilt or look down in awkward areas/angles, it just provides a front or side facing view. I can only suspect that the rats may have dug through the concrete where the pan connector is coming up from the ground.

The only option I'm left with is to remove the WC, remove the floor tiles (unable to find replacements online) and remove part of the floor to take a proper look to try and rectify the source of the entry point.

Alternatively, I could just live with it as the rat flap is serving it's purpose.