Re affixing door handle screws - holes too big?

[mattylad]

HI, at work we have several (fire) doors that have loose screws on the handle plates.
The doors themselves seem to be made of veneered poo and are hollow around the lock area.

Are there any products on the market that would act like a rawlplug for this situation?
The current method of stuffing the hole with cocktail/lollipop sticks is imo not good enough and they soon come out again.

Any suggestions (bar replacing the doors) ??

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

HI, at work we have several (fire) doors that have loose screws on the handle plates.
The doors themselves seem to be made of veneered poo and are hollow around the lock area.

Not fire doors then?

Any suggestions (bar replacing the doors) ??

Nut and bolts through the doors and handles. Or swap the handles for ones which are designed for back to back mounting, on each side where one handle bolts to the other.

 

[ETAF]

If these are the standard hollow doors - with corrugated grid of cardboard in - i have used plasplugs - hollow door plugs on a lot of my doors now
got them from B&Q many years ago, screwfix have them

Plasplugs Hollow Door Fixings 6mm x 23mm 20 Pack - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. For use in hollow doors, ideal for caravans and boats. Includes drill and screw gauge. FREE next day delivery available, free collection in 1 minute.

www.screwfix.com

perhaps a photo may help here , as it will depend on the hole size you are left with , the type of fitting

Note , i'm not in trade , just a Diy'er and happen to have had this issue a few times in various houses with cheap doors, including our current house - the doors are all non-standard size so replacing the doors was not an option as the cost was 100's per door (for the design the lady wanted - anyway),

 

[just pumps]

There are different versions and sizes of these fixings.

https://www.google.com/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjYoZrVobf4AhXngVAGHWT4BxYYABAJGgJkZw&ae=2&sig=AOD64_1M7-WYIOBQOW-bcg-VdsTPGEhHzw&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwinuZPVobf4AhXQa8AKHfmGDgMQ9aACKAB6BAgBEFE&adurl=

 

[foxhole]

The double ended screws as suggested are ideal.

 

[@tlan]

Doors been hung on the wrong side as there should be a lock block in flush panel doors.

 

[JohnD]

"sleeve nuts" is I think the correct name. modern lock and latch bodies usually have perforations allowing one or more screws to pass through them.

if the doors are actual fire doors, they should be of solid construction, and very heavy. Most often 44mm thick. depending on age they might be composed of a slab of chipboard with lippings, or possibly have layers of plasterboard inside. Maybe the screwholes have crumbled with repeated attempts to fix. modern firedoors have identifying marks stamped on the top (which you are not supposed to plane off). Intumuscent pads are now fitted in the mortices for locks and latches.

if they are actually hollow doors, i don't believe they can be firedoors. possibly they have been clumsily morticed in the past, or drilled for american-style knobsets which I strongly dislike and might not meet UK regulations due to the large through-hole.

You can get special caulk for fire doors, probably intumescent, possibly it would be the correct thing to fill any loose holes.

This company is a very reputable supplier of firedoor furniture, but you need to be very up to date with the regulations. I don't know what regulations apply in your workplace.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Fire doors aren't hollow. Most 30 minute fire doors have a solid chipboard core these days, so if the doors are hollow they ain't kosher.

OP - if they are hollow about the only thing you can do is redrill the screw holes much bigger (the same size as a broom handle would be good), gluevin a length of daid broom handle, plane and sand flush once the glue has set then repaint the doors and refix the ironmongery. Crude, but works providing your "dowel is a snug fit in the hole.

Intumesent caulk won"t fix anything, @john, and isn't normally used for small holes - the main use is to caulk the gap between the door casing and the wall (beneath the architraves) and as an isolation material where a producyblike Intergraf paper can't be used, such as behind keeps

Fire (exit) doors shouldn't be lockable - the only permitted locking mechanism is a crash bar with a surface mounted key lock block on the outside. If the door on an exit route could be locked it would be downright dangerous (e.g like Summerland).

Fire rated doors are a different kettle of fish, and as you say the locks need to be wrapped in intumescent paper (e.g. Intergraf), the closers need to be isolated from the door with the same material as do kick plates and all other metal components on the door and casing need to be isolated with either intumescent paper or intumescent caulk (or if needs be a combination of both). It's a pig of a job to do.

 

[mattylad]

Cheers folks, yes they are fire doors (I did put it in brackets in the OP) and yet yes they do seem to be hollow ish around where the handle screws go, solid everywhere else - chipboard inside.
They are what was in the building when it was moved into.

Those through bolts look excellent so I will suggest those.

Many thanks for the suggestions.
Re the fire doors no t being lockable, ALL of these doors are lockable and the keys are left in them (despite never being locked).
I have mentioned this multiple times.

 

[opps]

Doors been hung on the wrong side as there should be a lock block in flush panel doors.

Don't they have blocks on both sides/ends of the door?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Don't they have blocks on both sides/ends of the door?

Fire doors don't have blocks - they are solid all the way through

 

[opps]

Fire doors don't have blocks - they are solid all the way through

Good point, I was referring to the hollow doors, don't they have blocks on both sides of the door?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Good point, I was referring to the hollow doors, don't they have blocks on both sides of the door?

Some do, some don't. The ones with a single-sided block generally have the block side marked withbthe word "BLOCK" and an arrow on the top edge when new. Double side blocked doors may or may not have this marked on the top edge. The blocks should run from about 850mm to 1050mm above floor (bottom) level and 150mm in from the door edge, but they don't always, as there doesn't appear to be a set standard in my experience