re-render job

[Makeitstop]

Hi all.

This is my first post, so please bare with me.

My daughter is getting her early 1900's...ish end of terrace house partly re-rendered. The work is being carried out on a section which had some issues with the old render, and also, where it had had some alterations to the windows / doors etc following modernisation works.

My question is this.....

Where the old render has been hacked off, is it "essential" to ensure ALL brickwork is fixed and very solid....OR..... Is it accpetable for the odd loose brick to be rendered over, where it would no doubt be made more solid once all work is done.

The loose bricks are very minimal, and, are where the mortar is old and probably lime based (very soft and crumbly). I know that it's advised to use lime based mortar over older brickwork, but this house is a little bit of a patchwork of this and that mortar, from various jobs being done through its lifetime it appears.

The one part which does concern me is where a new PVC window has been fitted, and the top reveal of the window is just an arch formed of vertical bricks which is pretty loose. The builder has stiffened this by using wooden wedges, but, this arch form is clearly loose and does not seem fixed by any mortar to the course of bricks above.

Any views on this one.???

 

[mstellon86]

all the bricks and brick lintel should and must be solid with no movement. water the bricks down then use your 5/1 render scratch coat then 4/1 top coat

 

[Makeitstop]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I thought that would be the case. To me, loose brickwork is not a great way to ensure your render is secure, and if there's any movement underneath, it's likely to cause cracking of render. Am I wrong on that.???

Also, it may not be such an issue to have a bit of dodgy brick lintel up at the first floor windows, as there's nothing above them apart from the roofline. The problem one is at ground level though and has numerous courses of brickwork above it, so I'd have thought it was more critical.

I ain't no builder, but to me it seems like common sense.

 

[Makeitstop]

Any other views welcome folks.

 

[Alastairreid]

water the bricks down then use your 5/1 render scratch coat then 4/1 top coat

 

[Makeitstop]

water the bricks down then use your 5/1 render scratch coat then 4/1 top coat

I think perhaps he meant 4/1 and then 5/1 yes.?

 

[joe-90]

We need photos.

 

[Makeitstop]

Any other views on this one people???

 

[roughcaster]

It's very difficult to give a comment on this without seeing it. Any loose brickwork should always be rectified before proceeding with rendering etc. I think the best thing for you to do, would be to get an opinion from a local builder, who can see the job in the flesh, so to speak.
One thing i would say though, and Alastair picked up on it too,, you would "never" put a stronger render mix, on top of a weaker one,, i think you guessed that too from Alastairs reaction.

 

[Makeitstop]

Thanks Roughcaster.

Yes, I thought it sounded like good practise to make ALL brickwork solid BEFORE and render is applied.

What I don't like is the fact that this brick lintel is actually not properly attached to the course of bricks above it, there is a VERY clear break in the mortar joint. The whole lintel has been stiffened by use of wooden wedges, which have been driven into the brick lntel to expand it somewhat. To me, that looks like a quick fix, and one which is not going to ensure the render stays put over time.

Surely, a loose substrate will cause cracking won't it.???

I'll be having a word with him tomorrow, as he's supposed to be coming to get the scratch coat on.....ha.

He's going to be in for a shock I reckon.

 

[joe-90]

He prolly intends to rake out the loose stuff and force render into the joints as a key. Nowt wrong wi tha' lad.

 

[Makeitstop]

Well hopefully he will mention that yeh, but we'll see.

To me, I'd not leave it like that if I was doing the work, but as I say, I'm no builder / plasterer / renderer.

What I do not want to hear is "once it's blasted over with a nice coat of gear it'll be magic Guv"

Hopefully all will be good in the morning when I speak with him and he'll sound like he has the right intentions. I have not had a good feel of this brickwork to see how loose it is, but it is very noticeable how it has dropped and has loosened up. How good it will be if the joint is gouged out and repointed I don't know, but if that's ok to do this, then I'll settle for it.

Thanks ever so much for the replies fellas. Really appreciate it.

Will post an update tomorrow.

 

[joe-90]

That's what the wedges will be for - to hold it in position while he forces it in. If you point it first then you lose the deep key you can get by pointing and rendering in one hit.

 

[roughcaster]

Thanks Roughcaster.

Yes, I thought it sounded like good practise to make ALL brickwork solid BEFORE and render is applied.

What I don't like is the fact that this brick lintel is actually not properly attached to the course of bricks above it, there is a VERY clear break in the mortar joint. The whole lintel has been stiffened by use of wooden wedges, which have been driven into the brick lntel to expand it somewhat. To me, that looks like a quick fix, and one which is not going to ensure the render stays put over time.

Surely, a loose substrate will cause cracking won't it.???

I'll be having a word with him tomorrow, as he's supposed to be coming to get the scratch coat on.....ha.

He's going to be in for a shock I reckon.

Wooden wedges wont last for long, unless as Joe says it's just to hold it before filling etc. Ask him about it anyway, just to let him know you're aware of it. Let us know how you get on.

 

[roy c]

I cant understand him putting in wooden wedges, I would and have put pieces of slate hammered into the coarses to tighten up brickwork over windows. Sometimes "jacking " them up and other times not, depending on the safety issue. As with slate it comes in different thickness and is ideal for wedging and you can knock it in then break it off. Also after doing it this way I would always put s/s mesh over before coating it. Be interesting to see the pics..