Recommended Quality Twin Shower Pump Please

[Siberian_Tiger]

Hi

I am wanting to get a pump installed in my flat due to low pressure. My flat is not very high (~2.3m), the bottom of the cold water tank is about 1m off the floor & the hot water is supplied through a communal boiler Mainmet EMS metered system.

I have had a plumber look around and he said he would be able to install one and suggested me to get a good quality twin 1.5 - 2 bar pump (said german was the best). He didnt seem to know any brand names but quoted £100-300 depending on quality from the shop he works in with (I think) metal as opposed to plastic fittings as they were more reliable.

Could anyone please suggest any brand names and whether German are the best as I said I would purchase one on ebay where they seem to be much cheaper than what he was quoting.

Thanks

 

[meldrew's_mate]

Sounds like your "plumber" doesn't have the foggiest.

Do you need to boost both hot and cold supplies? If so there is a very good pump made in England called the Stuart & Turner Monsoon. You will probably need the 3 bar negative head version. They are not cheap, and they're not (thankfully) German, but they do the job well and last a long time.
After fitting one you will need to make sure all your taps are in good condition as it can be very annoying if the pump chirps away every hour to restore the pressure, and you'll soon learn to avoid flushing the loo at night too!

 

[ChrisR]

3 bar might give you trouble one way or another, with such a low head. Stuart Turner or Salamander are OK, as are some others but don't expect to go under £150. You will need neg head if the shower head isn't well below the cistern level, unless you use a separate switch to turn it on, which will be an air or pull switch, but still probably cheaper than a neg head pump.
Can't think of a German pump offhand!

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

He said a 3 bar would be too much pressure for my flat and is used for houses? Yes I want to boost both hot & cold, probably just to the bathroom so I can put a mixer tap shower on as the kitchen one doesnt really need the extra boost. I have seen alot of Stuart & Turner ones on eBay and yes they are quite expensive but I keep reading they are seen as one of the best.

I drew a diagram to try and show the plumbing setup more clearly and where the pipes run exactly and the levels of the tanks etc as I can see in my flat, hopefully its not too complicated, I thought there was 1-2 types of pumps but Ive found there is a plethora of different ones, positive negative etc so which would you suggest for my setup although you have suggested negative - which I have read is related to the curve of the waterflow?
I dont know how the cold gets in as the cupboard is really cramped the plumber said its gonna be a challege to do the rewiring and plumbing in there.



I also have a HUGE problem of limescale (prob due to living in London) where esp the bathroom sink & toilet bowl gets caked in it if I dont use remover to clean them for ~2 wks, and I cant use a cistern block as the cistern is plastic and has a warning (although I did because I bought 2 b4 I even saw the warning!). I was wanting to also get some sort of limescale remover thing, NOT the salt variety as I dont want to be drinking all those chemicals but the electric current ones - though Im not sure how good they actually are.
How long would a pump last without a remover? Do they have any protection built in against limescale? Im also assuming its better to get the metal pump variety rather than a plastic one?
Could you suggest a 2nd value alternative to the S&T, I have seen Salamander, Showerforce, New Team, Watermill on ebay. I was really looking at spending up to £200 maybe up to £250 on the pump though thats pushing it!

I have been told the plumber is a honest fellow, he was recommended to me by my friends friend who is a Jesuit Priest missionary who works in Africa where he met this guy so I dont think he is ripping me off! (I hope!) Although when I asked him what type of pump I needed all he told me was twin and the bar number nothing about neg/pos etc. He is charging me £250 labour including 2 small rewiring jobs, so it will probably all come to ~£450 including the pump. Do you know if thats decent?

Thanks!

**Oops I was busy writing this and someone else replied with Salamander!

 

[Nige F]

£250.00 Labour in The Smoke .....How does the guy live Not by bread alone

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

Hmm..well I think I will get some more quotes just incase. The other rewiring jobs are to bring some electric wires in through bathroom wall, next to the tank cupboard so I can have a shaver light/plug above the sink 1m away and also in the kitchen to change the cord switch to a flick switch on the wall 2m further down. I didnt think they would cost much as they seem pretty easy and close by. The majority of the cost is obviously fitting the pump, how much on average do you think should I be charged and look for in the quotes? BTW in order for a quote Im asuming they have to come around and look at the flat? Do they charge for that? Sorry I dont know much about these things!

Thanks

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

I think I will go with a Stuart & Turner Monsoon 1.5-3 Bar, there are a couple on eBay at the mo, shame I missed a 3 bar for £100 the other day which ended with no bids due to my indecision (and waiting for the council surveyor to tell me they are not required to fit a pump)

Can anyone tell me if I buy a positive head version can it be converted to the negative head? As someone on eBay says

you are bidding on a monsoon 3 bar booster pump with positive head. it can be used to boost water to your shower/bathroom at home or work. it can be used with a negative head by using a air switch to start the pump

Is this right and how easy is it to do this as there seem more +ve head pumps than negative.

Thanks

 

[ChrisR]

How big is the "small and cramped" cold water tank?
It's probably too small to be pumped AT ALL. It could be empty in 2 minutes if the mains is weak. Any pumped shower needs both hot and cold to be pumped from the tank.

Your only options then would be a mains electric shower, or possibly a venturi type, which is a bit better without drawing too much from the hot water. They use mains cold and "suck" hw.

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

I just measured the cold water tank, it is approx 80 x 65 cm.
The hot water actually goes into the immersion heater below the tank (I remember someone telling me maybe the surveyor). I have been told before by another plumber that the immersion tank I have is crap (probably standard council stock), supposedly it gets full of limescale (which I have alot of) and is highly inefficient.

I took some pics of the cupboard and the immersion heater/tank label I only have a phone cam so quality may not be so great and I 'enhanced' the writing somewhat lol (hopefully you have broadband too!):

Floor level is slightly lower it didnt all fit in the pic!



*Are you saying that if I got say a powerful pump (3 bar?) then it may pump the water out too fast and the tank may run dry?

Someone mentioned flushing the toilert above, if I install a pump will it make the flushes more powerful as sometimes I have to flush 2-3 times more as it doesnt flush properly, they installed a cheap plastic cistern and I cant seem to adjust the flush to an acceptable level.

I am waiting on a call back from the surveyor but I think I will have to chase him up on Monday to ask him what kinda pump bar etc would be best as I was half asleep when he turned up and forgot!

 

[ChrisR]

That isn't small like some can be. As long as you don't pump too fast it should be OK. Probably 40 gallons I think.
Difficulty may be getting a cold feed off the galvanised cistern you have - did they build the flat round it??
I'd still stick to a 1.5 bar, maybe 2bar pump though, and only if it you have an Essex flange put in the cylinder.
You'll probably get away with a positive head pump but you may have to lower the shower head just to get enough flow for it to start , then you can raise it again. Or fit a switch as I mentioned.

It won't affect the flushing of the toilet at all, only the filling of its cistern - may need a small mod to the valve for the higher pressure, which any plumber will know.
No short answer to poor flushing I'm afraid.

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

I think my type of flats were originally designed as granny flats in the 50/60's I wouldnt think much thought was given to the waterworks. I rang the surveyor and for some reason he refuses to speak to my but I just end up talking to whoever picks up the phone who just takes messages for which I never get called back! Then I rang on Monday and I was told he could not give me any information incase I took the advice and had problems with the pump! Then I left another message saying I had a plumber round who never told me what bar or head pump to buy. FINALLY I rang today and was told 1.5bar and then had to ask again, sensing irritation with his colleague because he had to ask again something I had already asked twoce and was told negative. Talk about long winded!

Anyhows thanks for everyones help and hopefully I can find a cheap S&T 1.5 Bar Negative head on eBay, unfortunately there is mostly 3 bars but Im not in a rush! Ill just have to take that £250 plumber as I did ring around and I was quoted min £200-300. Maybe its because I live in central london

 

[Siberian_Tiger]

I got a new Stuart & Turner Monsoon Neg Head 2 Bar for £135 incl delivery! Hopefully it wont be too powerful as the surveyor did say 1.5.. I guess I will only find out when its fitted! Now all I have to get is a mixer tap, shower head & arm and last but not least a scale inhibitor!