RECORDING PROGRAMMES ON SKY FREEVIEW CHANNELS

[sagleo]

We live in an area that has not been switched over to digital viewing yet. We have Sky Freeview channels, a satellite dish installed and a sky box. When I record a programme listed on one of the freeview channels, (sky channels) it does not record if I have the tv in scart mode!!

I have been told that the tv should be in analogue mode to record either on a Sky freeview channel or from an analogue channel.

I have also been told that when recording a freeview/sky channel, if we want to watch another channel at the same time the recording is taking place, we can only view an analogue channel (i.e. bbc1 bbc2 itv1, or 4) .

In addition, we have been told that when recording an analogue channel we can't watch any other channel but the one we are recording!!!

This does not make sense to me, and I am confused and my wife is annoyed that movies I am telling her I have recorded are not being recorded. Can anyone help to keep me out of the doghouse?
Any advice or suggestions will be appreciated. Thank you.
sagleo

 

[ChrisFrost]

A lot of what you have been told is correct.

A Sky boxes can only show one channel at once. So the basic box has to be on the channel you want to record. That means that if you want to watch TV you either watch the channel the Sky box is switched to, or you turn the telly over to your analogue channels (BBC1 & 2, ITV, Ch4) while you still have them. The alternatives are to add a Freeview tuner (but that might not be practical depending on your location and the Freeview coverage), or go for a second Sky box so that there's one for the recorder and one for the TV. You could spend a chunk of cash and get a twin tuner Freesat recorder (records one channel whilst watching another), or chuck your hat in the Sky ring and go for their Sky+ twin channel recorder.

If a big budget- or the thought of a subscription are both out of the question then a secondhand Sky box with a £20 Free-to-air viewing card is your best bet.

 

[ericmark]

Not quite following there are three types units to receive satellite broadcasts.
1) A Sky box.
2) A free to air box.
3) A TV with free to air built in.
Which do you have?

With a Sky box the outputs are reasonably standard with two RF outputs that's analogue one able to take a remote signal to change channel and two SCART outlets which do seem slightly different to each other and sometimes items like DVD recorders will only work if set after being switched on so may be worth swapping the SCART plugs or running from Sky to DVD then to TV. I have one SCART connected through DVD recorder and one direct.
The RF outputs work independent from SCART and you can connect 4 devices in all. Of course unless Sky+ all viewing same channel.

With a free to air box the outputs vary with some only having a single SCART outlet however again should be able to connect through the DVD recorder.

Built into TV never used but know with Freeview built into TV I have had problems recording. Reading the book it says in correct mode light on Yellow not Red then I should be able to use TV as a Freeview receiver to record programs without having the TV screen on. Well it failed. It has worked from time to time but since one can't monitor what you are doing it is very hard to set up.

From what you are saying I will guess you have last system if so you need to talk with someone with same TV.

Satellite can be split into three.

Encrypted these need Sky box and you pay each month.

Freesat this needs a card and uses some of the Sky features which include the Sky electronic program guide and is programmed to your post code needs one off payment to get card.

Free to Air more programs than Freesat but program guide is very poor and you need some other means to find out what's on. The guide does vary box to box but many only give now and next.

There is no Freeview on satellite that is terrestrial only.

With my TV I can record two Sky programs (Sky+) and watch a freeview at same time. I can record two Sky programs and watch a previous recorded Sky program.

With Freeview the TV will only work analogue or digital so can't record Freeview and watch anything else.

Computer will allow me to watch and record as many as I want as long as they all come from same MUX so since there are 6 MUX's on each Freeview broadcast once set to record only 1/6 of the programs are available.

You may find some satellite cards do the same! With my free to air box it has a through way for LNB and the second box will only work on a program being transmitted with same polarity and frequency as first. This gets very confusing as it seems programs work one day and not the other and it took me some time to find the Sky man had used the output from free to air box as second input to Sky box.

As a result sometimes really odd things happen due to wrong connections and without knowing what you are really using the answers to this question can be really up the creak.

 

[sagleo]

Not quite following there are three types units to receive satellite broadcasts.
1) A Sky box.
2) A free to air box.
3) A TV with free to air built in.
Which do you have?

With a Sky box the outputs are reasonably standard with two RF outputs that's analogue one able to take a remote signal to change channel and two SCART outlets which do seem slightly different to each other and sometimes items like DVD recorders will only work if set after being switched on so may be worth swapping the SCART plugs or running from Sky to DVD then to TV. I have one SCART connected through DVD recorder and one direct.
The RF outputs work independent from SCART and you can connect 4 devices in all. Of course unless Sky+ all viewing same channel.

With a free to air box the outputs vary with some only having a single SCART outlet however again should be able to connect through the DVD recorder.

Built into TV never used but know with Freeview built into TV I have had problems recording. Reading the book it says in correct mode light on Yellow not Red then I should be able to use TV as a Freeview receiver to record programs without having the TV screen on. Well it failed. It has worked from time to time but since one can't monitor what you are doing it is very hard to set up.

From what you are saying I will guess you have last system if so you need to talk with someone with same TV.

Satellite can be split into three.

Encrypted these need Sky box and you pay each month.

Freesat this needs a card and uses some of the Sky features which include the Sky electronic program guide and is programmed to your post code needs one off payment to get card.

Free to Air more programs than Freesat but program guide is very poor and you need some other means to find out what's on. The guide does vary box to box but many only give now and next.

There is no Freeview on satellite that is terrestrial only.

With my TV I can record two Sky programs (Sky+) and watch a freeview at same time. I can record two Sky programs and watch a previous recorded Sky program.

With Freeview the TV will only work analogue or digital so can't record Freeview and watch anything else.

Computer will allow me to watch and record as many as I want as long as they all come from same MUX so since there are 6 MUX's on each Freeview broadcast once set to record only 1/6 of the programs are available.

You may find some satellite cards do the same! With my free to air box it has a through way for LNB and the second box will only work on a program being transmitted with same polarity and frequency as first. This gets very confusing as it seems programs work one day and not the other and it took me some time to find the Sky man had used the output from free to air box as second input to Sky box.

As a result sometimes really odd things happen due to wrong connections and without knowing what you are really using the answers to this question can be really up the creak.

Thank you Eric. We have a tv that is "freeview ready", a sky box and satellite dish which we made a one-off payment for. Only limited sky channel viewing and of course we can view in analogue.

Would you know, Eric, if when the digital switch-over takes place if recording will become "normal"...meaning to be able to record any channel your tv receives and while that is recording to watch any another channel.

Right now, to record sky the tv must be in analogue, and if a sky channel is being recorded a different sky channel cannot be viewed at the same time.

When recording an analogue channel we can only view another analogue channel and no sky channels at the time of the analogue channel recording.

I'm 73 and my brain is bit numb after talking all those channells!
Thanks for taking the time to share your information and advice iit is well appreicated. sagleo

 

[sagleo]

A lot of what you have been told is correct.

A Sky boxes can only show one channel at once. So the basic box has to be on the channel you want to record. That means that if you want to watch TV you either watch the channel the Sky box is switched to, or you turn the telly over to your analogue channels (BBC1 & 2, ITV, Ch4) while you still have them. The alternatives are to add a Freeview tuner (but that might not be practical depending on your location and the Freeview coverage), or go for a second Sky box so that there's one for the recorder and one for the TV. You could spend a chunk of cash and get a twin tuner Freesat recorder (records one channel whilst watching another), or chuck your hat in the Sky ring and go for their Sky+ twin channel recorder.

If a big budget- or the thought of a subscription are both out of the question then a secondhand Sky box with a £20 Free-to-air viewing card is your best bet.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I am absorbing all you wrote. Do you know if recording will become normal after the digital switch-over?

Thank you for your response, it is much appreciated. sagleo

 

[SteNova]

Satellite can be split into three.

Encrypted these need Sky box and you pay each month.

Freesat this needs a card and uses some of the Sky features which include the Sky electronic program guide and is programmed to your post code needs one off payment to get card.

Free to Air more programs than Freesat but program guide is very poor and you need some other means to find out what's on. The guide does vary box to box but many only give now and next.

There is no Freeview on satellite that is terrestrial only.

what is mine then? sky box, no card, uses the sky epg, allows access to 'freeview' channels

 

[plugwash]

ericmark's list is incomplete and slightly inaccurate, there are quite a few different options for free satellite reception that use the same satellite group that sky use. To confuse things further two of the services have very similar names.

Freesat: Free to air service with a BBC/ITV provided EPG.
Freesat from sky. Uses the sky EPG and a "freesat from sky" viewing card. This service gets more channels than the other free satellite options because you get a few of the encrypted ones (known as "free to view" channels as apposed to "free to air" channels)
Sky box with no card: Also uses the sky EPG but only gets the unencrypted channels. Also accessing channel 5 requires the use of the "other channels" feature IIRC (or at least it used to) as the channel 5 in the sky EPG points at an encrypted version.
Generic DVB-S: likely either no EPG or a very sh1tty one. Can also be used with other services on different satellites (some freesat boxes may also have this capability, even sky boxes can be used with other sattelites though sky make it a PITA to use thier boxes for channels outside the EPG).

 

[ChrisFrost]

Do you know if recording will become normal after the digital switch-over?

If by "normal" do you mean like it used to be taping on to a video or dvd recorder from the aerial? If so, then as long as you have a Freeview equipped recorder then yes. But I thought you had Satellite, in which case the answer is no.

It's all made complicated because of the different ways that you can receive a television prgramming in to your home...

• analogue TV you already know and understand. The telly and the recorder have their own tuners; so it doesn't matter if you watch a different station on the TV to what's being recorded because the TV is picking up its own channels.
  
  Freeview is replacing analogue. Many areas of the country have both broadcasting at the same time until the switch over date. It works the same way as analogue as long as your TV and your recorder have their own built in Freeview tuners. All new TVs sold in the last few years have had to have both analogue and Freeview Digital tuners. Recorders have been slower to catch up, but I'm pretty sure you'll find all the current models have both analogue and Freeview tuners now unless they are designed for use with Freesat.
  
  Freeview HD is the add-on for HD content, but it needs a tuner in the TV and/or recorder with the added HD goodness to be able to receive the signal, and a HD-capable recorder if you want to tape HD programs. Freeview HD equipped tellys and recorders are backwards compatible with normal Freeview, but normal freeview equiiped gear won't pick up or record Freeview HD.
  
  Freesat is an alternative to Freeview and the free-to-air Sky channels. This is not the same as Sky, but it does come via the same dish. We're seeing TVs now with Freesat as well as Freeview tuners. The biggest difference is that the recorders are dedicated just to Freesat. There's generally no Freeview tuner as well, but there could be exceptions I don't know about. If you had an all-Freesat system then there would be two wires from your sat dish - one to the telly, one to the recoder. You could watch a different channel to the one being recorded.
  
  Freesat HD is the add-on to Freesat. It's similar in requirements and compatibilities to the Freeview HD gear: must have Freesat HD capable tuners, backward compatible with Freesat etc.
  
  Sky free-to air satellite channels is the nation's second most popular way of receiving digital TV. The Sky box is a tuner. It lets you watch one channel at once. Whilst being watched that channel can also be recorded on an external DVD recorder.
  
  Any home system built around Sky's free-to-air satellite channels is going to be restricted when it comes to recording. The tuner can't do two things at once. It can't let you watch one channel as another is being recorded on an external DVD recorder. For that you need a Sky subscription and the Sky+ dual tuner recorder box. Dual tuners means recording one whilst watching another. If you don't get a good analogue or digital signal via your aerial, and there's no way to imprve it, then you probably need to consider a Sky subscription and go for Sky+ box.
  
  Recording from a Sky free-to-air satellite box - if you have the option of SCART control switched On in the Sky box Services menu then recordings might be interupted. Try switching the feature to Off.
  
  Mix & match systems are the most common configuration for people who haven't got a Sky subscription. This could be any combination of the three signal sources above, plus two extra choices if you include Cable (Virgin media and BT Vision). What to watch and what to record then becomes a juggling act.

If you remember that your Sky box is simply a one-at-a-time tuner then you won't go far wrong. Leave it on the channel you want to record, and then put the TV on to the analogue channels to watch the aerial signal. Doing that, and switching off SCART Control, should mean that you keep your good lady happy.

 

[ericmark]

Thank you Pugwash I hadn't realised two versions of freesat but anyway we now know that he uses sky freesat so that leaves the question why should it need to be in analogue to record?

The next question is where is the recorder? If a stand alone using you should be able to mix analogue and digital.

However if the recorder is build into the TV then it would depend on the TV it may disable one bit when other bit is used.

There are a few methods to move signals from one unit to another SCART and RF coax are two very common. Most methods only carry one signal the RF coax is odd one out and can carry a number of programs on single coax and some TV's will receive one to be recorded and another to be watched but to do this the TV needs duel tuners and are as a result more expensive.

Anyway have I guessed right are you recording with TV. I did consider that method but I went for separate recorder which allows me to transfer anything I want to keep for a long time onto DVD as well. I do find it annoying that if I record something good I can pass on a copy to my dad but if he records something good it's locked inside his TV and I can only watch at his house.

If it is built into TV give make and model some one may know how it works.

 

[sagleo]

To: ChrisFrost
ericmark
SteveNova
plugwash

Gentlemen: forgive me for combining a response to all of you, and my apologies for not responding sooner. It got late last night, for my wife and I that is, and tiredness got the better of us.

I must admit I am rather confused with all the information each of you have so generously shared. My wife and I are not that computer literate nor informed on all the hi-tec stuff.

I guess what I am meaning when I say "normal" recording is that we are hoping that when the digital switch over takes place that we will be able to record on any channel that we receive..channells 1 - 4, Freeview channells which are 5, the bbc and itv extra channels, etc., and the free sky channells... and while a recording is taking place... to be able to choose another channel to watch!

Currently, if we record on a freeview channel or one of the available sky channels, we can only view analogue chanells ...bbc1 and 2, Itv3 and 4.

If we record on analogue we can only watch another analogue while that recording is taking place.

When the switch over takes place we are hoping to be able to record any of the channells available to us and at the same time watch any one of the other channells available to us.

If this is not going to possible, would we need another piece of equipment to add without having to subscribe to sky on a monthly bais?

What we have currently is a recently purchased tv with freeview available. A recently purchased seperate dvd player/recorder, and a recently (one off payment) purchase of satellite dish with sky box with a card.

We do not subscribe to sky and would prefer not to go that route.

My wife thank each of you for taking the time to respond to us and to help us out, you have each been so very generous with sharing your expertise and knowledge. Any more you can add will be much appreciated.

I have printed off all your responses and we will study them.
Thank you gentlemen. sagleo

 

[ericmark]

What we have currently is a recently purchased tv with freeview available. A recently purchased separate dvd player/recorder, and a recently (one off payment) purchase of satellite dish with sky box with a card.

That's the bit I was after. But missing one little bit. Has the dvd player/recorder got freeview built in? Most modern dvd player/recorders will record either direct from the aerial or from a SCART lead and if yours is like this you should be able to record either analogue, freeview or Sky and also watch another program on either analogue or freeview while watching sky or analogue, freeview or Sky while watching analogue or freeview as for analogue or freeview the dvd player/recorder should be independent of TV and Sky box.

However SCART signals on some TV's automatic turns TV to SCART and you may need to press the "Input" or "AV" or "TV/AV" button on remote to return the TV to Freeview/Analogue.

What you should have is the aerial plugged into the DVD recorder then a patch lead from TV recorder to TV (You could also have Sky box in loop but no real need) Then from Sky box a SCART lead to DVD recorder then another SCART lead from DVD to TV. Plus a SCART lead direct from Sky box to TV. (Last item may no be required if aerials go through Sky box)

With Sky on and DVD playing on the TV pressing "AV" button should move from direct(freeview/analogue), Sky, DVD.

This is assuming the DVD player/recorder has a tuner built in then you should have no problem recording one program and watching another.

However I bought my Hard-drive/DVD player/recorder cheap as it had no freeview built in only analogue and although I can record freeview using the TV's built in freeview it is not easy and one has to be very careful to use the right SCART socket on the TV.

In fact it is rather a pain as one SCART on TV is in only the other is in/out and with wrong leads it is very easy to get a loop and very poor signals.

It is simply a case of swapping the two SCART leads in back of TV if that happens.

The Sky box also has slightly different outputs on SCART leads and again if you have a problem then swapping them over may help.

If you still have problems then there may be an option in using Phono plugs and adaptors instead of SCART and even HDMI connectors but need to know what your TV and DVD have on them.

My Panasonic TV instructions has a host of options shown as how to connect up and maybe your TV instructions also has something to guide you.

However it does seem from what you say something is not corrected right as you should have much more flexibility in what you can record and watch.

I did have a DVD recorder and found I needed to use the expensive re-writeable DVD's although it should have worked OK with write once seemed to have problems. However with Hard-drive/DVD recorder all those problems vanished and I record on Hard-drive then transfer to DVD first removing adverts so I get more on DVD as well. But it may be worth getting re-recordable DVD's if you have no hard-drive did cost 5 for £4 in Aldi but not bought any for a long time.

Do tell us what you find. It may help other.

 

[sagleo]

[/quote]However it does seem from what you say something is not corrected right as you should have much more flexibility in what you can record and watch.

Thank you for your response, I have checked at back of equipment and this is what I find.

Aerial is plugged into dvd.
There is a scart cable from tv to sky box.
A scart cable from dvd to sky box.

Only one scart socket on tv
2 scart sockets on dvd, one is AV1 the other AV2. We use the AV1.
2 scart sockets on sky box, one goes to dvd, the other to tv.

Dvd has freeview built in, (we think)
TV has freeview built in, (we are sure of that one)

The dvd is a player/recorder to compact disc, it does not have a hard drive.

The tv has a built in dvd player, which we never use.
The tv is a Technika

The dvd is a Toshiba.
Perhaps it would better if we also had a toshiba tv to go with the toshiba dvd?

Also right from installation of sky box and dish, the sky remote has never worked for changing the volume...would you know if the remote should work? The fellow who installed the sky box and dish said this is because the tv is a technika!

When the fellow installed the sky box he did it in a terrible rush and my wife and I have since wondered if perhaps something was not connected correctly or he forgot to do something.

Any further comments will be most appreciated. Thank you. sagleo

 

[SteNova]

sky remote can be programmed for different tvs....

http://sky.uebv.com/

http://www.avforums.com/forums/sky-sky/544806-technika-sky-remote-code.html

 

[ericmark]

Because you don’t have two SCART sockets on TV I would run aerial through the Sky box.
So aerial will go from Sky box to TV and from Sky box to DVD as there are two RF outputs on the Sky box and as already set up from Sky to DVD then to TV.
Using RF coax you can then with TV set to analogue watch Sky or Freeview or analogue TV as standard Sky boxes are set to channel 68 but this can be changed.
Using AV will then allow you to watch DVD recorder and by switching recorder off direct to Sky. Recorder on you should get Sky both on AV and on analogue plus of course any freeview channels.
The main problem would be if in your area channel 68 is already used if so you can change this but at this stage I will not go through process.
As to setting up sky remote to work TV some TV's work others don't and you would need to go through list.

Biggest problem with RF with coax is one signal interfering with another and maybe the DVD is causing a problem? I took ages here swapping frequencies until I found a couple that didn't clash and then once it was all working we went digital and I had to do it all over again.

I think C68 is used by Freeview Mux 2/PSB2 in your area? I would try C21 first with SCART connected direct to Sky box

Press [services] 401 [select] without looking at the TV screen.
Option 4 RF outputs and type in 21 to change to channel 21 which I think is free in your area. 67 is also free I think as is 24 I went to http://www.ukfree.tv/mapsofsignal.php?c=24 to find what is used.

Not sure exactly your area but you can look your self.

 

[ericmark]

I hope I have not confused you?

The problem you have is only having a single digital input to TV. This means you watch DVD all the time and Sky will only be available when the DVD is set to Sky. This is clearly a problem as if you want to record freeview you can't at the same time watch Sky.

Although not ideal the easy way is to watch Sky using the analogue output however the Sky engineers seem to be very lax at setting up the Sky box.

I ended up buying a device to change the SCART output to analogue as at that time I didn't now you could change the channel sky uses. Sky have for some reason hidden the menu to allow you to change the channel.

From services selecting 4 shows a series of options which does not include changing the RF channel you enter 0 4 Select i.e. three keys don't forget "select" after 01 then you will see hidden menu which will allow you to select frequency.

However first you need to know what is free to use. Some TV's go to channel 69 really only 21 to 68 are valid but if you can get 69 then that's easy way out. However although some TV's show the channel number some only show a bar graph and finding out what channels are already in use is really a pain.

This is not helped with the two different systems and it is very easy to block a freeview MUX without realising and it took me some time where I live to find all the unused channels. Even then it still can cause problems as the Sky box is not too good at stopping out of channel interference so even though you have set it to unused channel this may still interfere with normal TV.

However if you find from the internet what channels are free I would expect around 15 at least with nothing on them to try all 15 is not that hard.

So to set up rather than having to tune TV every time do not connect DVD just connect Sky with both SCART and normal TV lead (RF) then try the TV and see if all the channels work. If they do then all well and good just do a re-tune of TV so it will find Sky box.

If however it fails to work on some programs then press AV and on Sky box change the channel number to one that should be free. Then re-try all terrestrial TV channels. Again if they work then OK if not then back to Sky and try another free channel. And so on.

Once you have found a channel which you can use on Sky box you can unplug SCART lead from TV and plug it into DVD. Most modern DVD's have a through port for TV RF lead but don't transmit they only receive unlike the old VCR and the only way to view DVD is through SCART. However if it does transmit then you may also need to find a free channel for that as well.

So one set up the aerial lead will go into sky box then to DVD then to TV or it can go to Sky box and one lead from Sky box goes to TV and other to DVD which way will not really matter as DVD does not transmit (Normally)

The SCART leads will go from Sky to DVD and from DVD to TV.

This should allow you to watch Sky on TV by either selecting AV and on DVD selecting also AV so Sky plays through DVD this will be best signal. But also you can tune TV to analogue and select Sky there and this will have nothing to do with DVD. So you can set DVD to record Freeview or Analogue and at the same time watch Sky.

If you give model number of DVD I will try to look up on internet to see if the instructions are on line and if they are it should tell me if the DVD has Freeview and if it has RF output.

If I was doing the job I would expect it to take an hour max to find free channel for Sky to use then all plain sailing. However sorry to say at change over it may all need doing again. Did here the Freeview was real pain seemed every time I switched on TV I had to allow it to retune and for 4 months I gave up with Freeview but now seems to have settled down.

However setting up the second time was easier.