Regs and Bath

[Dunton]

Why is moving a sink or bath included under Building Reg Approval for drainage?

Why do we have to pay the council £240 if we want to turn the bath 90 degrees or move it to the other side of the room?

If I install a new kitchen now, do I need approval for where I put the sink?

 

[ChrisR]

Afaik you don't need approval or to notify replacements. You're supposed to Notify New Installations (only) but nobody seems to boother.

 

[Softus]

Why do we have to pay the council £240 if we want to turn the bath 90 degrees or move it to the other side of the room?

AFAIK, you only have to notify if you're changing something that affects the stack or sewer, but you still have to follow the BRs at all applicable times.

If I install a new kitchen now, do I need approval for where I put the sink?

Not sure if you're being silly now.

 

[Dunton]

Well I think it IS silly too. But to quoate the info on the Mid-Beds Gov website....

"17 Do I need Building Regulation Approval to install fittings and appliances or carry out drainage work?

• All drainage work in connection with a building requires an application (including the installation of a sink or toilet)
  Installation of heating appliances and boilers.
  ....
  ...
  Altering the position of a bath or WC etc.
  
  If in doubt contact this office for advice..

That looks like you do need to apply. Is moving the kitchen sink from one side to another an installation? If you leave the drainage in exactly the same place is that then ok?

It used to be so easy to do the odd job around the house until they decided to regulate everything.

 

[Softus]

Well I think it IS silly too. But to quoate the info on the Mid-Beds Gov website....

I suggest that you check the BRs document, not someone else's interpretation of it.

Is moving the kitchen sink from one side to another an installation?

IMHO, no.

If you leave the drainage in exactly the same place is that then ok?

IMHO, yes.

It used to be so easy to do the odd job around the house until they decided to regulate everything.

We. We decided to regulate. And it isn't "everything". And it's for your own safety, and that of whoever else might live in your house.

 

[Dunton]

who is "we" ? I don't want to get into arguments over it, but what was relatively easy before is now made more difficult.

This is from the official regs...

Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet (http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131116)

From Section 3….

3.2 If whatever work your project involves amounts to ‘Building
Work’ then it must comply with the Building Regulations. This
means that if you want to:

• l put up a new building, or extend or alter an existing one
(e.g. by converting a loft space into living space);

• l or provide services and/or fittings in a building such as:
– washing and sanitary facilities (e.g. WCs, showers,
washbasins, kitchen sinks, etc.),
– hot water cylinders,
– foul water and rainwater drainage,
– replacement windows, and
– fuel burning appliances of any type;

then the Building Regulations will probably apply. This means that the
works themselves must meet the relevant technical requirements
in Schedule 1 and they must not make other fabric, services and
fittings less compliant than they previously were – or dangerous.
For example, the provision of replacement double-glazing must
not worsen compliance in relation to: means of escape; air supply
for combustion appliances and their flues; and ventilation for
health. They may also apply to:

• certain changes of use of an existing building even though you may think that the work involved in the project will not amount to ‘Building Work’. This is because the change of use may result in the building as a whole no longer complying with the requirements which will apply to its new type of use, and so having to be up-graded to meet additional requirements specified in the regulations for which building work may also be required.


From Section 4….

(r)(i) If I want to install fittings such as a WC, shower, washbasin, or
kitchen sink within my home, or any other type of building,
will the Building Regulations apply?

YES – if the installation of the fitting or fittings will involve
alterations to, or new connections to, a drainage stack or an
underground drain. You should also check with your Building
Control Service to find out how much information is required
about the fittings you intend to use.

NO – provided the work only involves installing an additional
fitting or fittings in the same or a new location which does not
involve extensions to the drainage pipework.

======================================

Still looks to me that you do need permission as you can't relocate the sink without extending the drainage pipework, even if it goes to exactly the same house exit point.

 

[Softus]

who is "we"?

All UK citizens.

I don't want to get into arguments over it, but what was relatively easy before is now made more difficult.

Perhaps, but my point is this: hose things that were relatively easy to do dangerously before, are now harder to do dangerously.

This is from the official regs...

Building Regulations Explanatory Booklet (http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id=1131116)

The Explanatory Booklet is not the official Building Regulations.

Still looks to me that you do need permission as you can't relocate the sink without extending the drainage pipework, even if it goes to exactly the same house exit point.

If that's the way it looks to you, then I strongly urge you to seek permission to do that thing. Or you could check by reading the Building Regulations.

 

[denso13]

After reading the explanatory booklet I would suggest it is for new installs or appliances.
Easiest way to find out is to phone your local building control and ask them if you need approval. I doubt if they would be interested in you moving a sink. Better still drop them a letter and you'll get a reply (in writing) that you can produce if needed.
The Building Regulations are technical standards, but they won't tell you if you need approval.

 

[Softus]

The Building Regulations are technical standards, but they won't tell you if you need approval.

I can't find any part of that sentence that isn't 100% wrong.

 

[denso13]

The Building Regulations are technical standards, but they won't tell you if you need approval.

I can't find any part of that sentence that isn't 100% wrong.

Ok I know I shouldn't, but could you be a bit more specific?

 

[Softus]

The Building Regulations are technical standards, but they won't tell you if you need approval.

I can't find any part of that sentence that isn't 100% wrong.

Ok I know I shouldn't, but could you be a bit more specific?

OK - I'll spell it out...

The Building Regulations are technical standards...

No they aren't.

...they [the Building Regs] won't tell you if you need approval.

Yes they will.

 

[denso13]

Building Regulations promote:

Standards for most aspects of a building's construction, including .......
The legislation provides the framework for the Building Control system and is underpinned by technical guidance documents.

Building control
Building regulations are national standards to control building work. They are set by Government in order to protect health and safety, welfare and convenience of people in and around buildings.

What are they if they are not technical standards?

And where exactly will they tell the OP if he will require approval from his local BCO, as two different local authorities can have different requirements?

OK - I'll spell it out...

If you could please

 

[Softus]

The kind of statements and questions that imply that he hasn't read The Building Regulations.

Have you read The Building Regulations?

If so, then please give an example of something within them that is a technical standard.

If not, then why are you arguing about what's in them?

 

[denso13]

The kind of statements and questions that imply that he hasn't read The Building Regulations.

Have you read The Building Regulations?

I refer to them every day.

If so, then please give an example of something within them that is a technical standard.

Technical Guidance
As the technical requirements of the Building Regulations are broad, functional requirements the role of guidance in knowing how those requirements can be satisfied is key.

Standards are mentioned throughout as are techninal specifications. If you don't think they are technical standards what are they, as you still haven't answered.

If not, then why are you arguing about what's in them?

I'm not, my original point to the OP was to contact his local BCO and ask. Even if something is in the Regs. building control can chose not to enforce it, which is why i said

but they won't tell you if you need approval

 

[Softus]

The kind of statements and questions that imply that he hasn't read The Building Regulations.

Have you read The Building Regulations?

I refer to them every day.

WTF does that mean? Have you, or have you not, read them? I don't mean in their entirety - the introduction would be a start.

If so, then please give an example of something within them that is a technical standard.

Technical Guidance
As the technical requirements of the Building Regulations are broad, functional requirements the role of guidance in knowing how those requirements can be satisfied is key.

Guidance Schmidance. They're just someone else's interpretation of the legislation.

Have. You. Read. The. Building. Regulations.

Standards are mentioned throughout as are techninal specifications. If you don't think they are technical standards what are they, as you still haven't answered.

I'm not going to spoon-feed you information about the BRs for you to ignore. It's you who hasn't answered.
Have you read them?
Have you read them?
Have you read them?

...my original point to the OP was to contact his local BCO and ask. Even if something is in the Regs. building control can chose not to enforce it, which is why i said

but they won't tell you if you need approval

LABCs can't override the law. They can, if they so wish, issue a certificate without inspecting the work that has been done, but on their head be it. If you notify them about notifiable work, and pay them their fee, them they either do their job or face the consequences.

If you choose to do notifiable work without notifying, then you'll have broken the law. If you're later asked for a certificate for which you didn't apply, then it's you who'll look the fool.

__________

PS - Have you read them? A simple yes or no would suffice.