Removing supporting wall and installing lintel

[olmeister]

Hi all,

I have removed a wall at the end of my kitchen to make one open space. This wall divided the kitchen and creating a pantry and a space under the stairs.

On advice from a builder I removed the wall believing that the floor joists run the length of the building and therefore the wall wasn't supporting.

After removing the wall it was discovered that 2 out of the 6 joists were much shorter and sat on a small lintel and brickwork above the left door as can be seen. The rest of the joists are built in with the hearth upstairs and chimney stack.

I would like to install a concrete lintel spanning the gap to support these 2 joists however they actually appear to be at a higher level than the remaining joists. Is a concrete lintel suitable for this application and how do I best pack above the lintel to support the joists.

 

[noseall]

Hi all,

I have removed a wall at the end of my kitchen to make one open space. This wall divided the kitchen and creating a pantry and a space under the stairs.

On advice from a builder I removed the wall believing that the floor joists run the length of the building and therefore the wall wasn't supporting.

After removing the wall it was discovered that 2 out of the 6 joists were much shorter and sat on a small lintel and brickwork above the left door as can be seen. The rest of the joists are built in with the hearth upstairs and chimney stack.

I would like to install a concrete lintel spanning the gap to support these 2 joists however they actually appear to be at a higher level than the remaining joists. Is a concrete lintel suitable for this application and how do I best pack above the lintel to support the joists.

I cant work out where you want to fit the concrete lintel? If it's directly beneath the joists, then I'd say you need something with a bit of oomph. A standard 65mm x 100mm concrete fella won't suffice, no.

 

[olmeister]

So the walls are now completely gone in the full view picture. Where the little wooden lintel above the old door way was, the brickwork above that was providing support as the 2 joists don't run full length there. I have tried to annotate the image, right of the cross the remaining 4 joists run the whole length and don't need support. Was thinking 140mm?

 

[noseall]

So the walls are now completely gone in the full view picture. Where the little wooden lintel above the old door way was, the brickwork above that was providing support as the 2 joists don't run full length there. I have tried to annotate the image, right of the cross the remaining 4 joists run the whole length and don't need support. Was thinking 140mm?

No.

You need a steel beam. You may be able to get a heavy concrete fella to work, but I would opt for steel.

 

[olmeister]

Why may it work and why do you have doubts?

 

[Charlie George]

Why may it work and why do you have doubts?

Another option is to replace the 2 short joist with new full length ones, ceiling stays same level, no boxing in of lintel, you may be able to put them in alongside existing joist, and bolt them together.

 

[olmeister]

Apologies for the crude sketch and photo thereof I don't have a PC atm. The leftmost short joist is sat on an internal wall (scribbled). The other 5 are now unsupported.

Large screws have already been put through the overlapping joists but obviously this needs to be sound. They are only short joists built in with the chimney stack and exterior walls and so I don't believe the load will be too great.

Haven't sought a structural engineer but have received advice from a builder and as the lintel would only be to support these joists and not the whole floor a concrete lintel would be sufficient.

 

[stevie888]

I see no reasen why you shouldn't just install full length joists. Leave the existing in place if the ceiling is intact.

You can probably drop a size given the span.

 

[olmeister]

Ok full disclosure - the pictures are 2 years old when the wall was removed, kitchen and house has been fully fitted and plastered.

Whilst the floor hasn't given way or even any noticeable shifting there are some hairline cracks on the walls upstairs above and around these joists. They may be coincidental but essentially regardless of these cracks I've not been able to move on and forget about the joists underneath (I took some bad advice at the time that screwing the overlapping joists together would be enough..)

This is where I am now.

 

[noseall]

Why may it work and why do you have doubts?

65mm deep lintels are designed to work in composite with masonry and not direct loading. Heavier gauge conc' fellas maybe ok, but they are heavy and cumbersome. Hence steel U beam.