renovation

[nos]

Hi all,

I've just started renovating a house and was looking for some advice regarding rewiring the whole house.

What are my best options regarding keeping costs down but complying to current regulations? Am I allowed to run all the cables myself and get a competent person to connect everything up?

Any advice is welcome as I'm finding it difficult to find consistent information regarding new regs.

I apologise if this subject has been covered before.

Nos

 

[andy]

I apologise if this subject has been covered before.

Nos

it has been done before. and there are many threads on what your askin.

basically, you have to submit plans to BC BEFORE starting work, do the work and they come and test/give certificates

 

[pdcelec]

Similar to driving really. If you have a few pints, then you can either get a taxi or save money and drive home yourself.

 

[andy]

If you have a few pints,and drive home yourself.

of course, you shouldnt drink and drive

 

[pdcelec]

Exactly my point!

 

[Qedelec]

I am still amazed at why someone would spend 100's of 1000's of pounds on a property and then penny pinch over the wiring.

 

[numpty with a crowbar]

I am still amazed at why someone would spend 100's of 1000's of pounds on a property and then penny pinch over the wiring.

To be honest its partly because you've spent 100's of 1000 of pounds on the house in the first place.
Speaking from personal exp - just bought my first house, and it needed massive renovation work (including the full re-wire), it's pushed me and the missus just to get onto the property ladder in the first place, so any cash we could save we did - so I stripped out all the old wiring, did all the chasing and installing of back boxes, plus all the plastering afterwards simply to keep down the costs coz a mate who's a spark was doing all the rest in his spare time for me - net result?? A re-wire for a couple of hundred plus cost of parts versus 2 to 3 K for it - which we were able to spend elsewhere on the house and make it liveable.
I can see what you mean but for us first timers any cash we can save in return for a bit of graft is money well saved - the house is up to the correct standards, we were bale to get nice new windows instead of the 50'a single glazed aliminium monstrocities that were there , plus much more.

All IMHO of course

 

[Hallsy]

Do you always have to contact building control though, does it not depend on who is inspecting it?

A friend of mine recently got a quote for a re-wire and had someone reputable quote him (well, he'd done work on grand designs anyway!!), he said he would be happy for my mate to do all the cahsing, etc to keep the cost down and he would do the rest.

Went around there the other day to help him chase, etc and now the electrician is saying that he is happy for him to get a mate to do all the re-wire (not qualified) and then he would inspect and sign off if all OK.

In this case would my mate have to contact building control, or as this electrician can supposedly certifcate other peoples work is there no need? Unfortunately my friend doesn;t understand much to do with electrics and didn't ask too many questions, such as Part P compliance, etc.

 

[SparkyTris]

I've just been through this, and this is how I understand it:

Now that the IEE wiring regulations are part of the building regulations (part P, in fact), you have to get "planning" (?) permission from the LABC to do a re-wiring or indeed various other electrical mods in a dwelling, just as you might for a loft conversion or extension.
That involves sending plans to the LABC for the work and an estimate of the cost. For a fee (which is proportionate to the estimate of cost) LABC will then consider and either pass or fail your plans. LABC will also then notify their electrical people to come over and inspect and test the work at their own expense (providing you have paid the aforementioned fee)
The testing electrician will then either pass or fail the installation. If pass then the PIR goes to LABC and you are part P compliant; if fail then you try again.

Exactly what the purpose of involving LABC is I do not know, other than complying with the law; I don't think you get any benefit out of that.

The PIR activity and document is very worthwhile in terms of safety and reliability of the installation. I think it might become more valuable in the near future with the advent of sellers packs.(?)

I suppose LABCs will differ greatly, but my "plans" were passed without question, and they consisted of a hand-drawn floor plans of the property with red crosses for power sockets and blue crosses for lights... not exactly a full engineering design!

 

[Qedelec]

Would you indemnify another persons work?
Not recommended. Electricians carry 1 mill indemnity, why do think that is? If I was to sign off another sparkies work and the place burned down, what do think would be the outcome. My insurance wouldn't be valid as I didn't do the work, so I would be personally liable for accepting responsibility for the installation. I know this seems unlikely but would you take the risk for a few quid?

 

[Adam_151]

As has been said, I'd say discuss with the electricion where backboxes and chases have to be, which boards need lifting etc, and do this for him, and when he comes to do the job, it'll take him less time as he has only got to install cables and accesories, as opposed to bash your house, then when he is finished you can do the plastering and other making good yourself

 

[numpty with a crowbar]

As has been said, I'd say discuss with the electricion where backboxes and chases have to be, which boards need lifting etc, and do this for him,

Yes - and always, always, always ask him his suggested best way to do things like chases - my spark had said "chase here, here , here and here etc etc and gone off to let me get on with it, I spent a day chasing out with hammer & chisel, only for hime to come back, pull out a grinder and chase twice the number of walls I'd done in a day in 15 minutes flat as a "demonstration of how to do it properly" (following up with jackhammering the brick out - god how my neighbours must have loved me ). Needless to say i went out the next morning and bought a diamond disk for my grinder as well Did the rest of the house in a day
And always remember the golden rule - you are the gopher and whipping boy, everything that doesn't go exactly to plan will be your fault, not the sparks, even if the spark did it

 

[Hallsy]

So if you contact BC, show them plans for points, etc and then tell them you propose to do the work yourself, leave everything uncovered/aceesible, they come along when it's finished inspect/test and all done?

If this is the case then I'm not sure what the spark that my mate has asked will be doing as far as inspoection/test is concerned as LABC send out a spark on there behalf rather than the customer finding one - is taht right?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you always have to contact building control though, does it not depend on who is inspecting it?

Yes and no.

Unless the electrician is going to lie to LABC, and say that he did the work, then you must notify them in advance. Nobody except a Building Inspector can certify someone else's work as complaint with the Building Regulations.

A friend of mine recently got a quote for a re-wire and had someone reputable quote him (well, he'd done work on grand designs anyway!!), he said he would be happy for my mate to do all the cahsing, etc to keep the cost down and he would do the rest.

I wonder if the electrician realises that whoever certifies the work is not just doing an electrical certification - he is also saying that the work complies with all the other Building Regulations that apply - structural, fire, soundproofing etc etc..

Went around there the other day to help him chase, etc and now the electrician is saying that he is happy for him to get a mate to do all the re-wire (not qualified) and then he would inspect and sign off if all OK.

You/your mate need to get a very clear statement from the electrician about what sort of inspection and testing he plans to do, and what sort of certificate he is going to issue, and if he is registered to be able to notify, and will be notifying, LABC to say that he has done the work and that it complies with the Building Regulations.

In this case would my mate have to contact building control, or as this electrician can supposedly certifcate other peoples work is there no need? Unfortunately my friend doesn;t understand much to do with electrics and didn't ask too many questions, such as Part P compliance, etc.

The law is quite clear - unless the work is done by someone who is able to self-certify compliance, then it must be notified to LABC in advance, no matter what arrangements you might have made for a qualified person to inspect & test it.

. . . . .

I've just been through this, and this is how I understand it:

Now that the IEE wiring regulations are part of the building regulations

No they are not. Please read the law.

(part P, in fact), you have to get "planning" (?) permission from the LABC to do a re-wiring or indeed various other electrical mods in a dwelling, just as you might for a loft conversion or extension.

No - you don't need planning permission.

That involves sending plans to the LABC for the work and an estimate of the cost.

Or a Building Notice - needs less info than full plans submission.

For a fee (which is proportionate to the estimate of cost) LABC will then consider and either pass or fail your plans. LABC will also then notify their electrical people to come over and inspect and test the work at their own expense (providing you have paid the aforementioned fee)

That's the theory...

The testing electrician will then either pass or fail the installation. If pass then the PIR goes to LABC and you are part P compliant; if fail then you try again.

Should be more than a PIR...?

Exactly what the purpose of involving LABC is I do not know, other than complying with the law; I don't think you get any benefit out of that.

The PIR activity and document is very worthwhile in terms of safety and reliability of the installation.

Thought you said that you couldn't see the purpose of it?

I think it might become more valuable in the near future with the advent of sellers packs.(?)

Don't hold your breath...

I suppose LABCs will differ greatly, but my "plans" were passed without question, and they consisted of a hand-drawn floor plans of the property with red crosses for power sockets and blue crosses for lights... not exactly a full engineering design!

And no hassles with them wanting to charge you for the electrician, or trying to get you to provide your own? Excellent. Which LABC, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Hallsy]

Cheers BAS, I think what the spark is saying is that he can offer an EIC to show BS7671 compliance, which I think I could do if I had calibrated test equipment (or would I need inspection & test course - 2391?) which then the LABC look at to show electrical compliance, so they only have to worry about building reg compliance.

As you say, I will suggest to my mate that he has it out with the sparky about whether he will be contacting the LABC, or whether my mate needs to do so. Can't help wonder if the spark is hoping/guessing that my friend knows little about wiring regs/part p compliance.