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Replacing a Wireless Thermostat in my Ideal Vogue boiler with HIVE wireless thermostat

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by Matt basic DIYer, 2 Mar 2019.

  1. Matt basic DIYer

    Matt basic DIYer

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    E8CEEBA0-FD78-4C80-AAE9-F7FD0B1070DB.jpeg Hi guys,

    I am relatively new home owner and working on my electric DIY skills. I have recently bought a HIVE central heating unit and want to replace my built in wireless thermostat with the hive one. However, opening up the Ideal Vogue c32 boiler the sea of wires has stumped me. Is someone able to confirm, really simply, which wires go from the old theremostat to the new one? Pictures below. Thanks I really appreciate any help!
     
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  3. stem

    stem

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    The wires in the terminal marked 'Room Stat'

    Capture.JPG

    They go to the Hive (you need the single channel version) terminals 1 (Common) & 3 (Heating on). It doesn't matter which way around.

    Then a 230V supply fed via the same 3A fused spur that supplies the boiler go to the L and N

    On some Ideal Vogue boilers, to access those terminals it is necessary to open up a room sealed compartment to access them. If that is the case it is not a DIY job and should only be done by a RGI (Gas Safe Engineer) who can make sure that the boiler is properly sealed up again afterwards.
     
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  4. ericmark

    ericmark

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    When the boiler is clearly OpenTherm, why would you fit an off/on thermostat like Hive rather than a modulating thermostat like Nest?
     
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  5. Matt basic DIYer

    Matt basic DIYer

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    Thanks Stem,

    Two wires feed into the Room Stat In, assume both go in 1/3?

    A couple of N coming from the other side of the supply line, does it matter which?

    EricMark - what’s the difference please, only purchased HIVE as my thermostat broke and it was recommended.
     
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  7. stem

    stem

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    Do not remove or alter any of the existing wires, they stay exactly as they are. The Hive wires are additional.

    The terminal marked 'room stat in' needs a new wire to Hive (3) heating on

    The terminal marked 'room stat out' needs a new wire to Hive (1) common

    Sorry not sure I understand that and to be honest, it worries me slightly that you don't understand what you are doing. There is only one N terminal and there are actually 3 wires in it.

    Capture.JPG

    The neutral wire to the Hive will be a fourth.

    Hive will just switch the boiler 'on' and 'off' as most thermostats do when heat is and isn't required. This is the traditional method of control

    Nest has Open Therm control which your boiler supports and it will regulate the boiler temperature according to your heating requirements.
     
  8. Matt basic DIYer

    Matt basic DIYer

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    Ok so now I am confused, sorry! I thought I was replacing wires that go to the current internal theremostat to the new hive one.

    So from your latest post I need 4 completely new wires...

    -1 new wire from the bottom of the Room Stat In terminal into Hive 3
    -1 new wire from the bottom of Room Stat Out terminal into Hive 1
    -1 new wire coming out of the bottom of the N terminal into Hive N
    -1 new wire coming out of the bottom of the L terminal into Hive L

    Thanks again, really appreciate your help!
     
    Last edited: 3 Mar 2019
  9. ericmark

    ericmark

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    I look at the picture of inside your boiler and question why there is no loops on the room stat /timer, heating zone 2, and frost stat? I would have expected to see a loop of wire which needs removing at least on one of those.

    I also question use of Hive to start with, if using the thermostat in the traditional manor installed in the coldest ground floor room without alternative heating and with not doors to outside then the thermostat needs to be one without any anti-hysteresis software, as you don't want it to switch off/on all the time, every time it switches off energy goes out of the flue.

    If however you are using the thermostat to control the main living room, then it should be of the opentherm type.

    Hive has anti-hysteresis software built in so not suitable for use in coldest room, and is not opentherm so not suitable for main room.

    There are boilers, like unfortunately the one I have, where the control can only be with the return water, there is no option for any modulating thermostat to be fitted other than the one built into the radiator valve, there are others which can't modulate old gas or oil, and with oil some where the modulation is that little may as well consider it as not a modulating boiler, so in my case only option for better control is electronic heads on the thermostatic radiator valves (TRV) even with boilers with opentherm or other modulating option often we want to control rooms independently, so still the eTRV is best option.

    I just can't see how Hive fits in with a boiler with opentherm option, Nest or Tado yes, Hive is OK for oil and very old gas boilers, but few modern gas boilers can really be controlled in an economic way with Hive.

    However I would want to read the instructions for your boiler, and work out why there is no loops in the room stat /timer? Maybe there is a dip switch, or it needs a computer plugging in and configuring? Normal is you remove loops to fit room stat /timer to fit an external timer.
     
  10. stem

    stem

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    The wires on the left of the terminals in your photo are connected to the boilers internal circuitry they should not be moved or touched under any circumstances. The internal thermostat / timer will probably be connected to the boilers printed circuit board, and not to those terminals anyway.

    Yes. That is what the terminals are provided for.

    What happens regarding the internal boiler controls, will depend on how it is configured. There are several variants of Ideal Vogue, I know of at least 3. If you haven't removed a wire link between the Room Stat terminals as per below, and it is working as it should. You should find that setting the internal boiler time controls to be permanently 'off' will be all that is required, and the Hive will take over control.

    Capture.JPG

    I am a bit worried by your comments though. It appears that you don't even have a basic understanding of what you are trying to do, and so I would strongly recommend that you engage the services of a professional to install the Hive for you. Especially if you have opened up a room sealed compartment to get to the terminals as you do with the Ideal Vogues I have seen. An RGI will then be able to make sure it is properly sealed up again before you use it.
     
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