Replacing light fitting

[whoareyou]

Hi,

Im replacing my ceiling light fitting. Once i removed the original light and exposed the wires, they had 3 wires, all in black cables, into a block. The block simply had N with 2 of the wires into it and L with the other wire entering it.
Obviously the new light fitting has places for the L, N and Earth.
It isnt obvious which wires should be placed into the L, N and Earth though?

Any help for a novice!

Cheers

 

[flameport]

Details on wiring here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:rose

However

The block simply had N with 2 of the wires into it and L with the other wire entering it.

If that is all of the wires, there is no earth, so you cannot fit the new light fitting there.

they had 3 wires, all in black cables, into a block.

Black cables suggests rubber insulated wiring, which will be 50+ years old.
As that type of cabling had a 25 year expected lifespan, your lighting circuit needs rewiring.

For confirmation, please post pictures of the wires at the ceiling, behind one of the light switches, and also a general view of the fusebox/meter area.

 

[sparkwright]

Details on wiring here: //www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:lighting:rose

However

The block simply had N with 2 of the wires into it and L with the other wire entering it.

If that is all of the wires, there is no earth, so you cannot fit the new light fitting there.

they had 3 wires, all in black cables, into a block.

Black cables suggests rubber insulated wiring, which will be 50+ years old.
As that type of cabling had a 25 year expected lifespan, your lighting circuit needs rewiring.

For confirmation, please post pictures of the wires at the ceiling, behind one of the light switches, and also a general view of the fusebox/meter area.

We may be mis-reading this.

Though he said black cables I wonder if he actually meant black wires.

He said they went to a block.

If this is the case the reds may be pushed up in the ceiling.
And hopefully the earth wires as well.

If it has been wired like this then the two blacks go to neutral
and
the one black goes to the live (sleeve red)

Make sure the metal fitting is earthed.

Before you do anything you need to confirm if the wiring is rubber or pvc.

Rubber cable will be very 'dry', dull and probably crumbly. It's outer sheath will be a matt black.

Pvc wiring has a more shiny insulation and a very smooth texture.

 

[whoareyou]

Thanks both very much for the replies.

Sorry i didnt go into enough explanation. I will post photos in the morning.

There are 3 red wires pushed up into the ceiling away from the 3 black 'cables into a 'chock block'

I describe them as cables, although its the out-a-casing which is black with the copper (?) wire exposed at the end.

The fuse box is new (last few years i believe) although it is a '30's house.

If it has been wired like this then the two blacks go to neutral
and
the one black goes to the live (sleeve red)

That is right, although there is no red sleeves, the only red 'wires' are the 3 going into the block.

Once again thanks for taking time to reply and ill post photos tomorrow

 

[sparkwright]

Any earth wires (may be in the ceiling void)?

 

[whoareyou]

Any earth wires (may be in the ceiling void)?

having a close look, there does seem to be a 'naked' cooper wire which is taped up and pushed into the ceiling?

 

[sparkwright]

That sounds like it.

You should have three. These get sleeved with earth (green and yellow) sleeving.

All you need now is to confirm that the wiring isn't rubber.

You'll probably know if it's rubber as the insulation will be dry, dull and crumbly. It will just look old.

If the wiring is smooth and new-ish looking then it is hopefully pvc.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

All you need now is to confirm that the wiring isn't rubber.

I think he should also check that the earth for the circuit has continuity - not really wise to trust your life to the work of someone who just tapes them up and pushes them into the ceiling void.

whoareyou - have you got a multimeter?

 

[plugwash]

That sounds like it.

You should have three. These get sleeved with earth (green and yellow) sleeving.

All you need now is to confirm that the wiring isn't rubber.
.

NO!

If you find one instance of a dangerous bodge like this the only reasonable thing to do is to assume there are more such bodges until proven otherwise. That means a thorough inspection and test of all wiring in the property is needed ASAP.

 

[whoareyou]

All you need now is to confirm that the wiring isn't rubber.

I think he should also check that the earth for the circuit has continuity - not really wise to trust your life to the work of someone who just tapes them up and pushes them into the ceiling void.

whoareyou - have you got a multimeter?

No.

These are images of how it look, once all the wires are exposed from the ceiling.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It isnt obvious which wires should be placed into the L, N and Earth though?

Err - the existing connector block is labelled L & N - it's a bit worrying that that isn't obvious enough for you...

Do not lose track of which black is the live, or you'll be in a mess of trouble.

When you go to the shops to get some G&Y sleeving for the earths see if you can get some red for that live - failing that brown would be better than nothing.

But I repeat what I and plugwash said - you really should get your wiring checked out, because trusting your life to work done by the sort of twonk who could do this:

is a bit risky.

I'd hold off connecting a light which needs an earth until you know that you have got an earth that works. Ditto any metal switches.

 

[whoareyou]

What i wasnt confident in, was the fact that the 'N' had two wires connected to it. What is probably obvious by now is the fact im a novice at this (!), and if anything isnt straight forward i like to double check and from past experience people on here know what their talking about!
I just wasnt 100% on what i should connect to N,L and E on the new light fitting.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

L&N will be the same as on the existing one.

Please look at the lighting articles in the Wiki - it will become obvious why there are two neutral conductors connected together...

 

[scousespark]

What i wasnt confident in, was the fact that the 'N' had two wires connected to it. What is probably obvious by now is the fact im a novice at this (!), and if anything isnt straight forward i like to double check and from past experience people on here know what their talking about!
I just wasnt 100% on what i should connect to N,L and E on the new light fitting.

That is what you get when a rose is ripped out.
The 2 neutrals, which are confusing you are the loop in and loop out.
These are paired with 2 of the reds.

The third cable is your switch live. This has the third red and the associated black is in the L terminal.

The 2 bare connectors are the earth for the loop in/out. Normally they would have been put into a connector block, but it's not exactly rare to see them twisted and covered in tape.

You really need to check the earth continuity before you connect your new light. If you don't know how to do this, I suggest you get somebody in who does.

 

[whoareyou]

What i wasnt confident in, was the fact that the 'N' had two wires connected to it. What is probably obvious by now is the fact im a novice at this (!), and if anything isnt straight forward i like to double check and from past experience people on here know what their talking about!
I just wasnt 100% on what i should connect to N,L and E on the new light fitting.

You really need to check the earth continuity before you connect your new light.

Thanks everyone for taking a look and replying.
Looks like a simple light replacement may take a bit longer.......!