Replacing old (imperial) radiators with new (metric) ones?

[thetotalnovice]

I started discussing this in a thread i had on gas fires but i don't want one thread to go all over the place so i'll ask this here.

Basically the main radiator in the living room (single convector) we will want to be replacing so that it is at least a double panel convector. Double panel double convector may have it sticking out from the wall a little far & i don't know - it may be overkill for the room...

7mtr long, 3.5mtr wide, 2.5mtr high.

There is also another small (950mmx600mm) double panel convector rad in the opposite corner.

Anyway, measuring the length of the main radiator, it is 1750mm long. Looking in Wickes, the closest is 1800mm, but surely you'd then end up bending the flimsy 10mm copper pipes coming through the floor?


Like i said, i had only just started talking about it elsewhere, so i'll quote the questions i was asked & answer them here...

do both pipes go to one side, or one to each?
Is the floor below solid or timber?
If timber you might be able to lift boards and adjust pipes
Myson do imoerial rads but they do not correspond exactly, but might be easier to adjust pipes to:
http://www.myson.co.uk/products/premier_he.asp#tabbed-2

* The pipes go to both sides of the rad
* The floor below is timber. The floor will also be getting renewed. The guys doing the damp proofing job (& renewing floor) said they can remove radiators themselves, but i don't think they're qualified when it comes to getting too technical with plumbing.
* The rads in place at the moment have those TRVs on one end.

I don't know whether it'd be better going 1600mm or 1800mm. Can't a plumber just weld on to the existing pipe coming through the boards?
I imagine it'd be easier to make the piping extend to fit a smaller 1600mm than it would be to do god knows what to make it fit a longer 1800mm?

But you plumbing guys must've faced this plenty of times, so what do you do?

 

[Agile]

If the floor is coming up then it should be easy to bring them up a little wider.

Those guys can take rads off but new ones need new bracket positions.

I find setting out bracket positions a bit tedious but then I expect it to be accurate to 2 mm.

Normally a plumber or good handyman or a very careful DIYer will be needed.

But its essential that the pipes come up correctly!

Tony

 

[FiremanT]

Good idea to start new thread.

I don't know whether it'd be better going 1600mm or 1800mm. Can't a plumber just weld on to the existing pipe coming through the boards?

He probably could (solder not weld) but it would look cack

I can't remember if you have just moved in. Do you know if rads heated room properly Some early systems, especially solid fuel, were undersized and regarded as " background heating". on the other hand, a new rad will have a greater output per sq metre surface area, assuming boiler capable.
The point of the floor and pipe orientation question: If you lift the floorboards, you will almost certainly be able to reposition the pipe and valve on at least one side, by manipulating the pipe. The other end may be more of a problem, depends on direction of route. You may find some "slack" A new imperial rad will be easier. Alternatively, as you have wood floors, it will be relatively simple to drain, cut pipes and extend / shorten.

 

[thetotalnovice]

We bought in Nov 2013 but moved in March 2015.

The living room has already been taken back to brick on one wall & it will be on the other walls also, so it wont matter really about the brackets.

Downstairs i remember being actually quite chilly. Upstairs is nice & warm but downstairs really not so much. I don't know how much of this is down to the radiators & how much is down to the fact there's no carpet in the living room & big gaps at the ends of the floorboards.

Still, a single panel convector in a room of such size, i'm no expert (clearly) but i would've thought double panel convector as a minimum? Surely better to have too much heat there than not enough??

May be an idea then, since all the floor will be getting whipped up, to buy in a rad & tell the guys we'll be needing that sorted out.

Or to get a plumber in beforehand maybe, chop at the boards & he can extend as he pleases since the floor will be renewed in about 3 months time.

 

[thetotalnovice]

I've just had a measure up & looked at http://www.myson.co.uk/products/premier_he_imperial.asp#tabbed-2

The length is 1759mm or 69" which matches the website above.

The height on the other hand is 600mm. Not very imperial.

 

[Agile]

My advice would always be to buy the natural current metric size and do what is necessary to connect it.

Otherwise you are just giving a problem to the next person.

Contrary to what some have suggested, its always better to have a higher heat output than then minimum. That enables a condensing boiler to operate more efficiently.

Tony

 

[FiremanT]

We bought in Nov 2013 but moved in March 2015.

The living room has already been taken back to brick on one wall & it will be on the other walls also, so it wont matter really about the brackets.

Downstairs i remember being actually quite chilly. Upstairs is nice & warm but downstairs really not so much. I don't know how much of this is down to the radiators & how much is down to the fact there's no carpet in the living room & big gaps at the ends of the floorboards.

Still, a single panel convector in a room of such size, i'm no expert (clearly) but i would've thought double panel convector as a minimum? Surely better to have too much heat there than not enough??

May be an idea then, since all the floor will be getting whipped up, to buy in a rad & tell the guys we'll be needing that sorted out.

Or to get a plumber in beforehand maybe, chop at the boards & he can extend as he pleases since the floor will be renewed in about 3 months time.

One cannot say a double is neccesary without knowing all the factors. Sometimes IMO a large single looks a lot better than a smaller double, but it all depends on space available. My advice would be to follow your last plan:
Or to get a plumber in beforehand maybe, chop at the boards & he can extend as he pleases since the floor will be renewed in about 3 months time.

However, you may also be well advised to allow the plumber to calculate the heat losses and properly advise on correct rad. size/output.

My comments on the imperial sizes were based on you bending the pipes to fit. The imp. rads were closer in size to the metric. With regard to the 600mm high, the Imp. rads should fit the valves on odd rads. The height is not normally of signficance, unless fitting below a sill or shelf. Without reading back, I think your existing sizes are a bit odd

TONY: Who suggested going for the minimum??

 

[thetotalnovice]

Well i had a guy out tonight to look at the job while he was servicing the boiler.

I measured up & showed him the rad length - 1760mm.

He said about going for a 1700mm rad & putting spacers on to make it fit.

I had a look at screwfix & Wickes & there's no such 1700mm radiator at all. 1600 yes & 1800 yes but not 1700.

So what's he on about with this 1700mm rad??

 

[keego]

http://www.heatandplumb.com/acatalo...0mm_High_X_1700mm_Wide_Double_Panel_Plus.html
I would put a rad extension on one end & a drain off rad valve on the other, it looks a bit neater & another drain off is always useful.

 

[keego]

Forget that one for some reason it says 1700 & then goes on to say it's 1600?
Try going to a proper merchants & I'm sure you will find a 1700mm rad, might take a week or so to turn up but you will get one.

 

[jedi]

I've just replace 4 old imperial rads with 4 new metric ones

The one in the hall was not a problem as the floor was up so I could cut n solder new pipes in.

The other 3 were a bit tricky as 1. They had imperial lock Shields and valves, and 2 they don't make 950 mm rads, well not in screw fix, either 900mm or 1000mm. I opted for 900mm with a pipe extension that they do..

So far no leaks