Replacing wall lights

[jaylockwood1978]

Hi all,
we have bought two new wall lights from ikea to replace existing ones (Which worked fine). i cant get them to work though. To test, i have made up a make shift plug and cable and they work fine when plugged in.
Im confused at in each fitting, there are three grey cables coming out of the wall, each containing an earth plus either red of black wire, so 6 wires in total. I’m unsure what goes where. The left light has 3 x earth, 2 x red and 1 x black. Testing the wires, one of the red is live when the wall switch is on, otherwise, they are all not lIve.

the right light has 3 x earth, 2 x black and 1 x red. None of these appear to be live, regardless of whether the wall switch is on or off but the old light worked fine before??

i have included photos as my description is rubbish. The fitting apparently doesnt require earthing so i have wago’d the 3 earths. I have included a photo of the actual light and the fittings inside. There are two holes for live and two for neutral.

Thank you

 

[SUNRAY]

I'm making a guess BUT I stress it is ONLY A GUESS you may have this arrangement:

Unless you have any test kit and are able to use it with a modicum of accuracy I don't have a starting point for offering advice on what tests to do/where to start.

 

[jaylockwood1978]

It does look like that to be fair, one switch live on the left hand light. Any ideas how I go about wiring that to the new lights I’ve bought please?
I do have an electrician coming next week as I feel that’s the safest thing to, we all have our likits but it’s just annoyed me as I thought it would be an easy swap and I’m intrigued.
Annoyingly I didn’t take photos of the wiring on the original lights which is also annoying as I have a whole album of ‘wiring before I changed something’

 

[SUNRAY]

It does look like that to be fair, one switch live on the left hand light. Any ideas how I go about wiring that to the new lights I’ve bought please?
I do have an electrician coming next week as I feel that’s the safest thing to, we all have our likits but it’s just annoyed me as I thought it would be an easy swap and I’m intrigued.
Annoyingly I didn’t take photos of the wiring on the original lights which is also annoying as I have a whole album of ‘wiring before I changed something’

Well IF and again I stress IF that is the arrangement then the 2 reds are the live in one fitting and the 2 blacks are the neutral in the other.

Do you have any test kit?

 

[Taylortwocities]

Without a pic of the original connections and without any sort of test equipment we could fit here for a week speculating on the various permutations of 9 wires.
I suspect your electrician will be with you before the conundrum is solved.
I suggest you wait for his arrival.

Next time it’s really helpful if you take a photo before you disconnect stuff.

 

[jaylockwood1978]

Yeah I know, like I say, i have an entire photo album on my phone of wiring before i have changed something. Typical, the one time i don‘t take a photo, i actually need it!!
i have a Fluke tester pen, on the left hand light (2x red, 1x black), one of the reds, I’m presuming is the switched live as it is live only when the wall switch is on. With the wall switch off, all 3 wires don’t show as being live.
Regardless of the wall switch being on or off, the right hand light are never showing as live.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The second wall light will get its volts from the first one. You won’t see volts there until you’ve connected the first one up correctly.

 

[jaylockwood1978]

Oh ok. So i was trying to sort the left one first, and put both red wires in the live connector in the fitting and the black in the neutral. I wago’d the earths as there is no earth connector on the fitting. I hand‘t connected the right hand light.
Could the reason be why the left one didn’t work be because the right one wasn’t connected and completting the circuit?

 

[SUNRAY]

Oh ok. So i was trying to sort the left one first, and put both red wires in the live connector in the fitting and the black in the neutral. I wago’d the earths as there is no earth connector on the fitting. I hand‘t connected the right hand light.
Could the reason be why the left one didn’t work be because the right one wasn’t connected and completting the circuit?

OK I wasn't going to do this but I get the impression you can cope.

As you have already done it, Wire the left as you have described but do not put a bulb in yet. Make sure the 3 earths in the right are connected together and the rest of the right wires are safe/can't touch.
Turn power on and test right wires with your tester pen, the red may behave the same as the left red and be live when switched on.
If it doesn't test that way - make everything safe and give up.

If it does test that way - fit a bulb in the left fitting and one of the right blacks may test the same as the red.

Report back.

 

[securespark]

Yes.

 

[jaylockwood1978]

Thank you, i really appreciate the help. I will report back tomorrow as being in a pitch black room with a head torch, messing with electrics after a beer wouldnt be my brightest moment really do appreciate the help.

 

[jaylockwood1978]

OK I wasn't going to do this but I get the impression you can cope.

As you have already done it, Wire the left as you have described but do not put a bulb in yet. Make sure the 3 earths in the right are connected together and the rest of the right wires are safe/can't touch.
Turn power on and test right wires with your tester pen, the red may behave the same as the left red and be live when switched on.
If it doesn't test that way - make everything safe and give up.

If it does test that way - fit a bulb in the left fitting and one of the right blacks may test the same as the red.

Report back.

Morning SUNRAY,

so i ve just done exactly what you said. When i put the wall switch on without a bulb in the left fitting, the red in the right side becomes a switched live.
With a bulb in, the red and one of the blacks in the right side become live but only when the wall switch is on.
The bulb in the left doesnt come on though.

Also, when the wall switch is on, my tester pen is solid red, even in close vicinity to the wires in the left side without actually making any contact to the wires. It also solid red when touching the actual metal fitting. This stops when the wall switch is off. That doesn’t Seem right to me?

 

[SUNRAY]

Morning SUNRAY,

so i ve just done exactly what you said. When i put the wall switch on without a bulb in the left fitting, the red in the right side becomes a switched live.
With a bulb in, the red and one of the blacks in the right side become live but only when the wall switch is on.
The bulb in the left doesnt come on though.

Also, when the wall switch is on, my tester pen is solid red, even in close vicinity to the wires in the left side without actually making any contact to the wires. It also solid red when touching the actual metal fitting. This stops when the wall switch is off. That doesn’t Seem right to me?

The tests are as expected and as you haven't mentioned it I guess the other black does not light your tester.
IF it does not light the tester I feel it is OK to connect both blacks together in the right fitting as neutral and the red is the SL.
Still turning the power of while working on the wires of course.

Your tester may very well light against the metal fitting at this stage, especially as there is no neutral connected and possibly may still do so (hopefully to a lesser extent) when everything is finished, this type of tester is only useful as a guide.

 

[jaylockwood1978]

Sorry, the other black didn’t light the tester.
You my friend are amazing! Thank you so much for your help. The casings aren’t showing a live either now.
Thank you again

 

[SUNRAY]

Sorry, the other black didn’t light the tester.
You my friend are amazing! Thank you so much for your help. The casings aren’t showing a live either now.
Thank you again

I assumed the other black wouldn't light your pen as it's neutral and equally the casings (I hoped) wouldn't light your pen when the neutrals were completed through the pair of fittings.

You are welcome and thanks for the feedback of the outcome.