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Replacing Wooden windows with UPVC double-glazed

Discussion in 'Windows and Doors' started by utterlydiy, 13 Jun 2005.

  1. utterlydiy

    utterlydiy

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    I'm thinking of replacing my wooden single glazed windows with UPVC double-glazed myself. These I will replace at my own pace weather permitting.

    As we all know every house is different regarding the depth of the window frame fitting ie: outside wall to inside. And different manufacturers frame designs. Knowing to allow at least 10mm for the frame size when ordering.

    Are there any Websites where there are any tips for replacing the old with the new. Making and fitting the cill ledges, outside weather seals and general info.
     
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  3. oilman

    oilman

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    If you really have to replace them, why not use wood?

    So someone has been putting it about that UPVC is maintenance free. What they should have said is that it is UNMAINTAINABLE!!. Any damage, and it's a new window. With wood you just have to repair it.

    If you want minimum maintenance for the wood, how does a maintenance coat every 7 years sound? It's possible with linseed oil paints, worth a look IMO. Try here . (Hmmm....perhaps I could run boilers on it too, probably need to remove the glycerine first :D ).
     
  4. utterlydiy

    utterlydiy

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    My main problem is that the front of the house faces South/SouthWest and the winter elements.

    At present tried all the so called long life finishes 5yrs 7yrs or whatever, but the sun dries the treatment and the timber far shorter than whats its suppose to last. And I'm having to retreat every 2/3 years, also having half cladding. Its a pain in the butt doing this.

    My previous house had UPVC fitted and had no problems.
     
  5. oilman

    oilman

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    I can see your point, but you might find it worth having a chat with the people at Holkham. The main problem with modern long lasting finishes is their hardness, and therefore prone to cracking then letting water in to rot the wood. With the linseed oil paints the first coat is linseed oil on bare wood. That stops the degradation, and though they need repairs now, we have windows that are 130 years old, and they face south. The north facing ones only need minor work.

    I get round a lot of houses now, and the more significant problems people tell me about are with UPVC windows, as they didn't match up to the expectations.
     
  6. utterlydiy

    utterlydiy

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    Thanks but, I'm sticking to my plan of replacing the wooden frames with UPVC double glazed units.

    I have found a couple of websites with some help.
     
  7. masona

    masona

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    Why not have hardwood double glazing instead of upvc, then use Tung oil for treatment, it's so easy to do.
     
  8. utterlydiy

    utterlydiy

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    I want to be rid of Maintentance every two years or so as already mentioned above, I also want to replace the wood cladding I have. This maybe replaced by either UPVC cladding, Reclaimed tiles or bricked up with matching brick work as some have already done.
     
  9. JayS

    JayS

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    To join in with the others then...

    uPVC is NOT weather proof. The plastic dries and crumbles very quickly in sunlight. Wood last vertually for ever if you treat it correctly, and as masona say putting a bit of oil on it now and then isn't particulary difficult.
     
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  11. oilman

    oilman

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    Ah, have you looked at Holkham's site then? It's not a modern long lasting paint, this is at least 400 years old, as I found from someone doing research into painting in Bolsover castle. When I asked what was the base for the paint, it was linseed oil and white lead. Linseed oil paint needs a maintenance coat of oil in 7 years time, and then a coat of paint 7 years after that. It's easy to use, you don't need white spirit, you can wash everything including splashes with soap and water, and (again), our wooden frames are 130 years old.

    I know you have got to the stage where changing to something other than uPVC may be a bit of a climbdown, but there are plenty of window firms doing very nicely supplying replacements for replacement windows, and the original replacements were uPVC.

    Now ask yourself "Who says uPVC windows are so great"?
    Answer: salesmen and manufacturers.

    Who says wood is worth a serious look?
    Answer: Us lot, and we don't make any money out of it.
     
  12. biffvernon

    biffvernon

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    The paint that Holkham sell is actually manufactured by a Sweedish company called Allback. It is excellent paint. The binder is linseed oil and the pigment is titanium dioxide, not lead carbonate as that is too poisonous. The real beauty of linseed paintis that it remains 'breathable' alowinf the wood to dry out. Modern alkyd paints are more waterproof so when (as they always do) eventually crack, water gets in and is trapped. The the wood rots and the paint falls off. The Real Paint and Varnish Co also make and sell real linseed oil paint. I would not use anything else on exterior timber.

    If you really want maintenance free windows have them made from oak. It does not need painting. You can just let it weather to a silvery grey. If well made to start with they should last a few centuries. Well into the time when uPVC will just be an archaeological curiosity carefully conserved in a controlled museum environment.
     
  13. utterlydiy

    utterlydiy

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    OK.
    Can anyone make a comparison of costs of a Hardwood frame against a UPVC frame say a 1800 x 1200 with an side opening and top fan window c/w cill.

    I'm still worrying about the fact that I may have to retreat the frames shorter than whoever treatments specify due to the south facing to the Sun and the prevailing Winter elements.

    Albeit my frames and cladding are some 25 years old and are in need of replacements. I take in what you are saying but I've got that gut feeling.
     
  14. biffvernon

    biffvernon

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    My oak windows are a little more expensive to buy than a plastic one but I would expect them to last 250 years rather than 25.
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  15. oilman

    oilman

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    I've got some newer softwood frames, Boulton & Paul, I treated them with Sadolins, but being lazy I neglected the maintenance as I hated all the rubbing down for one. When it was so bad I had to do something, I did clean it off and then oiled it (tung oil). As it's bare wood, it needs oiling annually, but it's quick, easy and the cleaning is just a stiff brush.

    One thing with oak windows is IMO they really need at least oiling, otherwise oak tends to crumble in the right conditions.

    Many window frames were made from softwood, with an oak cill (even known as cill oak). It's moisture content is an air dried level rather than kilndried. If the right species is used, softwood (a resiny pine) is quite durable. Douglas fir is readily available, and durable.
     
  16. biffvernon

    biffvernon

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    I usually use linseed oil on the outside and tung oil on the inside of oak windows but leaving it bare is fine too. The surface goes silvery-grey and a bit rough but that is very superficial. If the wood has crumbled there must be something else amiss.

    Larch is the most easily obtainable durable softwood. Oh, and leylandii of course - but you must let them grow tall and not keep clipping them to get decent timber.
     
  17. oilman

    oilman

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    Thinking about it, the oak was part of a boat, and was varnished, so probably it was kept continuously damp.

    Biffvernon, is larch ok for use as facia boards behind gutters? My old ones (1960 vintage) have rotted along the top and need replacing. I have a timberyard near me that has trees in and saws them to any size needed. Mostly cedar and douglas in the softwood, and I need 18ft of 6 x 1. If I could have 1 length so much the better.
     
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