Repointing mortar on 1930s house ...

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Hi all,

Apologies for what is probably a very basic question ...

We have cracking in the mortar of the brickwork above the ground floor front window on our house. It's a mid-terrace house that was built in the 1930s by the GLC, and the walls are London yellow stock cavity walls. These houses were originally built without lintels, and the heavy timber frame of the window would have supported the brickwork above. However, the original timber windows have previously been replaced by UPVC windows and, like the majority of houses in the estate, this has caused bowing and cracking in the brickwork above the ground floor front window. There is also more pronounced cracking in the brickwork above the front door, but the door frame is still original, so this cracking appears to be caused by a different type of issue (i.e. not bowing).

We've had several quotes for installing a cat-nic (or similar) lintel above the ground floor front window, and repointing / remortaring the brickwork above this window and above the front door. These quotes have ranged from £700 - £1200. All of the builders who have quoted so far have said that it will be fine to use a cement based mortar, and that they will try to match the colour of the surrounding original mortar by adding dyes to the new cement mortar.

Being a complete noob at this sort of thing, I've tried to look at various sources online to check whether this all seems to be along the right lines. The main warning that I've seen crop up is whether a cement-based mortar is appropriate for this type of brickwork (i.e. 1930s London yellow stock). I've read that if the cement mortar is harder than the bricks, then this can cause problems with moisture in the bricks, and can mean that if there's any future cracking then the bricks might crack instead of the mortar.

I'd be really grateful if anyone is able to give me some advice as to whether a cement-based mortar is likely to be appropriate for this type of brickwork (i.e. 1930s London yellow stock) ... ? If not, then what should we be using instead - someone else mentioned a cement-lime mortar mix, but most builders don't seem to do this ... ? We're also quite worried about whether the colour of the mortar is likely to match the surrounding original mortar. It's quite a prominent position on the front of the property, and where this job has been done badly (which sadly is not uncommon on other houses on the estate) it's very noticeable. Does anyone know whether there is any certain way to get a decent colour match - or is there always an element of pot-luck ... ?

In case it helps, here are links to a couple of photos ...

- The first photo shows the cracking in the brickwork above the ground floor front window and above the front door. None of the builders who have provided quotes have been able to say for certain what is likely to have caused the cracking above the front door, but such cracking is common on houses on the estate.

www.planningjungle.com/photo1.jpg

- The second photo shows a close up of the brickwork at the bottom of the window, just to show what type of mortar was used. For comparison, I've chosen an area where you have original mortar (on the left, as remains on almost all of the house) and some new cement mortar (on the right, just a bit around the window cill, which has been done very badly). The original mortar seems to be in very good condition - it's firm (not at all crumbly), although you can make slight groves in it with the edge of a key, so it seems to be weaker than the cement mortar.

www.planningjungle.com/photo2.jpg

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - sorry for asking what are probably silly questions - but it's something that's been worrying us for quite some time ... !!

Thanks :)
Steve
 
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hmm..hard to tell.

lime mortor is normaly quite crumbly and bity,

sand and cement is quite ..well sandy, when you rub it.
 
There are 2 main methods of matching mortar, and neither is really 100%.
The first one is to match the colour by blending sands and dyes to get it about right within about a month of pointing. The problem with this method is that mortar changes colour over the years and so the mortar can change from the original in time, especially when dyes are used.
The second method is the one favoured by conservationists. They have the mortar analysed and then use the same mix and sand. This usually looks nothing like the existing, but in years to come will start to look like it.
 
Thanks for your replies xr4x4 and stuart45 - it's much appreciated :)

xr4x4 - with the original mortar, if you rub it hard with a finger, then a bit of what feels like sand comes away. I wouldn't describe it as crumbly - it doesn't came away in large chunks, just as a thin layer of sand at a relatively slow rate. I'm not very good at describing such things, but I guess it comes away when you rub it hard with a finger at a similar rate to if you rub a bit of wood gently with a piece of sandpaper - so relatively slowly.

stuart45 - thanks for the info, that's really useful. The builders who have provided quotes all mentioned adding dyes to the cement mortar, which seems to correspond to the first method that you have mentioned. Really sorry for the silly question, but what do you mean when you say "get it about right within about a month of pointing" ... ?

I've heard about the second method from a conservation officer - their view was that it's best to analyse the mortar, replicate the original mix, and then after it has been laid apply a soot wash to darken it to match the surrounding original mortar. I'm assuming that this method is probably a lot more expensive than the first method - I did have a look online, but couldn't seem to find any companies in the south London area that specialise in such a method (to get a quote).

Thanks again :)
Steve
 
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Thanks for your replies xr4x4 and stuart45 - it's much appreciated :)
stuart45 - thanks for the info, that's really useful. The builders who have provided quotes all mentioned adding dyes to the cement mortar, which seems to correspond to the first method that you have mentioned. Really sorry for the silly question, but what do you mean when you say "get it about right within about a month of pointing" ... ?
(to get a quote).
Thanks again :)
Steve
I meant that it takes about a month for the mortar to cure and dry enough to get closer to the colour. When first done it will be a bit darker.
 
you might find a bit more info googling LCC ;) instead of GLC maybe even some old specs. for houses in some archive . The lime mortar/cement question is a tricky one - The Victorian London Sewers used The new Portland cement - so who knows what they did in 30s - apart from that I never venture N . of Croydon ;)
 
Thanks Stuart45 and Nige F - much appreciated :)

Nige F - that's a good suggestion - I had forgotten that the GLC was previously the LCC. I've now tried searching using the latter, but unfortunately I wasn't able to find anything stating whether the mortar used on the St Helier estate was cement based or lime based (or both). However, I did find some old newspaper articles about other issues and other such info which was interesting in its own right ;)

Thanks,
Steve
 

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