Repointing Quote Reasonable

[AkiraDIY]

My mother stays in a old end terrace building, circa 1800 I think (although I've heard 1600 too). She's on the ground floor and has two neighbours above. The top floor is renovating and his builder has found water ingress coming from between the stonework of the end gable wall. When it's raining and the wind blows against the gable wall, some water does eventually come in depending on how heavy the rain is, so it's not a complete surprise.

My mother stays quite rural so some builders take the mick with their quotes as they know choice is limited. The gable wall comprises ground floor, 2 floors above, plus the pointy roof/loft part where it meets the eaves. Mainly stonework I believe, maybe a bit of brickwork near the eaves. I've been quoted around £2700. Is that overpriced or probably ballpark?

The quote entails cleaning the wall, removing the old cement, PVA sealing the wall, and repointing the cracks with mortar mix. Currently clarifying if he's repointing the whole wall or just the cracks.

 

[^woody^]

Stone needs to be worked on by someone who if not a specialist, then at least experienced.

Typically, stone mortar would be lime based, not cement. And using cement can damage the stone.

The quote is not even basic enough for brickwork, let alone stone - "removing the old cement" ... is that your words or theirs? How deep will the joints be raked out to, what mortar is being used and ratio, how is it to be pointed (finished face), how is the wall being accessed, what tools are to be used, how is dust being controlled?

I doubt anyone can comment on the price quoted with no actual information as to what is being done. But as always, several itemised quotes are needed for comparison.

As this is a multi-occupancy block, who is responsible for the structure and cost of repairs? Is that £2.7k x3 or /3?

 

[blup]

Can you post pics of the wall?

Blup

 

[AkiraDIY]

Can you post pics of the wall?

Blup

A google maps image of the actual wall needing done is the best I can do right now. The only other image of the wall I have is not needing done but the construction is the same.

Stone needs to be worked on by someone who if not a specialist, then at least experienced.

Typically, stone mortar would be lime based, not cement. And using cement can damage the stone.

The quote is not even basic enough for brickwork, let alone stone - "removing the old cement" ... is that your words or theirs? How deep will the joints be raked out to, what mortar is being used and ratio, how is it to be pointed (finished face), how is the wall being accessed, what tools are to be used, how is dust being controlled?

I doubt anyone can comment on the price quoted with no actual information as to what is being done. But as always, several itemised quotes are needed for comparison.

As this is a multi-occupancy block, who is responsible for the structure and cost of repairs? Is that £2.7k x3 or /3?

Their words were clean wall off, breaking off the old cement from joints, clean the gaps between the stones and remove the dust (PVA), place pointing mortar mix between the cracks in the stones.

It is vague, as are most builders quotes in my experience but I have asked for a more detailed description. If I could get several itemised quotes, I would but like I said, there isn't much choice where she is and even the bad builders are busy year round. I believe this guy is a roofer by trade with a good rep from what I've been told.

The repair is communal and ownership is shared evenly, so 2.7k/3.

 

[blup]

A lot of quotes are minimal by design, you should get lime mortar specified though

Blup

 

[AkiraDIY]

Stone needs to be worked on by someone who if not a specialist, then at least experienced.

Typically, stone mortar would be lime based, not cement. And using cement can damage the stone.

The quote is not even basic enough for brickwork, let alone stone - "removing the old cement" ... is that your words or theirs? How deep will the joints be raked out to, what mortar is being used and ratio, how is it to be pointed (finished face), how is the wall being accessed, what tools are to be used, how is dust being controlled?

I doubt anyone can comment on the price quoted with no actual information as to what is being done. But as always, several itemised quotes are needed for comparison.

As this is a multi-occupancy block, who is responsible for the structure and cost of repairs? Is that £2.7k x3 or /3?

The builder finally got back to me and basically said the joints will be raked out to around 2 inches on stonework. Regarding the mortar question, he said the following:

There are many products on the market for this type of work, but I will offer this one because I think it will be the best and long-lasting.The product is called "Portland Cement" or "Lime Mortar"

That to me reads like he's saying Portland Cement = Lime Mortar??

I thought they were complete opposites or does lime mortar contain some percentage of portland cement?

 

[^woody^]

Portland cement is cement. Cement is mixed with sand to make mortar.

Lime mortar is mortar - ie lime mixed with sand to make lime mortar.

Further, there are two types of lime for making lime mortar, the type required should be specified correctly.
And "around 2 inches", what's that mean?

There are not many "products" on the market for this type of work. There are two/three materials - one is sand, the other lime or cement.

I think that builder is trying to baffle, but does not actually know what to do.

 

[AkiraDIY]

Portland cement is cement. Cement is mixed with sand to make mortar.

Lime mortar is mortar - ie lime mixed with sand to make lime mortar.

Further, there are two types of lime for making lime mortar, the type required should be specified correctly.
And "around 2 inches", what's that mean?

There are not many "products" on the market for this type of work. There are two/three materials - one is sand, the other lime or cement.

I think that builder is trying to baffle, but does not actually know what to do.

He said the joints would be generally raked to a depth of not less than 40mm (just under 2 inches) in rubble in stonework & 20mm ( just under 1 inch) in brickwork. Sounded reasonable to me although whether or not he actually goes to that depth will be near impossible to verify. I'm not exactly keen on getting a gable wall re-pointed in it's entirety with the weather getting so cold now either but if there's water ingress, waiting till spring isn't ideal.

I've gone back and asked what he means by "the product he will use is called "Portland cement" or "Lime Mortar"" as they are different products and what is the lime & mix he will use.

The builder is a roofer by trade, who is currently employed to do a "back to brick renovation" of the top floor flat, which is how he found water ingress between the stonework. We knew the gable wall had some cracks in it previously and tried to get a contractor to quote in the summer but he never showed up.

It seems to be the situation where my mother stays; rural with limited choice in builders, so they tend to work across trades and have the luxury of picking the jobs they want. The only local stonemason retired quite a while ago iirc.