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Routing Oak rebate for double glazing

Discussion in 'Wood / Woodwork / Carpentry' started by owb82, 4 Oct 2015.

  1. owb82

    owb82

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    Hi Guys

    Hope everyone is well.

    Iv recently bought a house with Chunky Oak framing. It is needing to be glazed up.

    I would like to route a 15mm by 50mm rebate to take double glazed panels. Is this going to be too difficult with the wood being so hard?

    I wasn't wanting the cost or visual impact of buying and fitting oak window frames into the oak frame. My second option was putting inset in. But again cost of extra oak and a slight visual impact puts me off.

    Thats why I was hoping to simply make the Oak frame itself into the window framing.

    Hope that makes sense [​IMG]

    Any thoughts/ suggestions would be greatly appreciated?

    Thanks

    Alan
     

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  2. stevethejoiner

    stevethejoiner

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    I agree it would look best to rout out a 50 x 15 rebate to glaze, but if you did this how would you plan to provide opening casements or fan lights? Surely they wouldn't all be straight glazed?
    You are correct to worry about the hardness of the oak, it could be like iron. Also if it has age to it, there will likely be lots of old nails/screws imbedded, and they really play havoc to router cutters.
    You could try a guide bearing cutter but this will follow any imperfection in the edge of the oak and you won't get a good clean rebate. A straight edge would be better, but your likely to have obstructions in trying to fit straight edges.
    Probably better to physically attach an oak stop around the frame to create a rebate. You can place this externally and fit the glass unit from inside pushing them out onto the new beads, with glass bedded on GZ tape or a specific glazing mastic. I use brown MP dry seal for oak, its made by Repair Care International. The beads also require bedding down on plenty of sealant.
    Your project needs doing well, as this type of retrospective glazing is difficult to achieve and be water tight. Water often gets in are the joints in the original outer oak frame where the jambs sit on the Cill. This joint in most cases has opened up with wood shrinkage so needs attention or all your good work is in vein with water ingress.

    Steve.
     
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  3. joe-90

    joe-90

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    Well the usual way of doing it is with a circular saw to cut out the bulk of it then trim up with a router, but that's not practicable unless you can take the frames out. It'll be a nice house when it's done.
     
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  4. Burnerman

    Burnerman

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    Amazing property, that.....what's the structure behind it?
    John :)
     
  5. owb82

    owb82

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    Hi Steve

    Thanks for that great feedback. Thought I was going crazy as someone told me i had to install complete new casements into the existing frame.

    As for openings. We are planning to have a juliet balcony upstairs and bi-fold doors downstairs so I was hoping that would be enough ventilation and give escape access. We dont have any fan lights to install. All openings are retangular, except for the triangle sections at top and they are all straight edged. The curved edges you can see are set back into the structure and would not touch the glazing.

    The oak was all bespoke and brand new at the time of install, sad to say the owner ran out of cash and had family problems, so what you see here has been left to elements for 7 years. Its is all structurally sound and free from rot though (amazingly).

    Yeah a straight guide is probably out due to access. I fully agree any imperfection will be mimicked by a guided cutter. but I suppose i'll still have those imperfections if I just install an oak stop. I like the idea of putting in the oak stop as its saves alot of routing out. What size of stop would you suggest? Largest glass panels being 655 x 2370mm.

    Thanks again

    Alan
     
  6. owb82

    owb82

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    Hi Joe. Taking out the frame is not an option as it holds the roof and cost would be crippling. Thanks Im hoping so :D

    John, its the village church, its having a new lead roof :)

    Thanks

    Alan
     
  7. stevethejoiner

    stevethejoiner

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  8. owb82

    owb82

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    Wow some great advice there Steve.

    I was thinking of putting a sill in as the bottom stop as in the attached photo.

    Thanks for your effort. I'll speak to building regs asap. Was just wanting to get my head around some ideas and costs first. You have been a great help!
     

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    Last edited: 4 Oct 2015
  9. stevethejoiner

    stevethejoiner

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    Also when fitting glazing stops, always fit the cill/bottom stop first and run the side stops down onto it. This way you can cut the bottom stop to internal frame width and really do a good job of bedding it down, mastic between the underside of stop and where it sits on the frame and also run mastic up the end gain of the stop where it abuts the jambs, as this is the weak point for water ingress.
     
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  10. stevethejoiner

    stevethejoiner

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    You are welcome, it is best to be informed. Steve.
     
  11. owb82

    owb82

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    Brilliant thanks Steve.

    Updated my last thread with a pic. Think it all looks like your explanation. What sealent do you use to seal around the wood?
     
  12. stevethejoiner

    stevethejoiner

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    Yes that's it in a nut shell, the photo shows a good installation. Also note the bottom bead is wider than the side and top beads, this is good as it provides room for a water drip groove on the underside. Even without a drip groove the bead projecting over the bottom of the outer frame will prevent rain getting under between the bottom of the bead and frame cill.

    As well as making new joinery I do window restoration as a second business, and I use this stuff, lots of it, and it has never let me down. http://www.repair-care.co.uk/products/dry-seal-mp
    I now glaze all my glass, both single and double glazed units with it. And I bed glazing beads down with it. Its not cheep, but its not as expensive as doing revisits to solve leaks.
     
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  13. Dextraneous

    Dextraneous

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    Before you do anything, you might find it wise to check with the local planning officer to make sure that there weren't any restrictions in place on the original designs. Highly unlikely, but the last thing need to get is some enforcement notice demanding that you only have single glazed units put into place, especially if the thing is in some kind of conservation area.
     
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  14. owb82

    owb82

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    Thanks again Steve. Great advice.

    Dex, thanks but its not, double glazing is in the plans accepted by planning.
     
  15. owb82

    owb82

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    Hi Steve just been looking at Dry Seal MP. You said you use it on oak windows. As it is white does it not look an eye sore? Especially running it around the stop and sill. Sorry keep asking questions.

    Arr just seen they do it in brown. Is that what you use?

    Do you put it onto the back of the stops then pust the glass onto it or fit the glazing dry then seal around its edges?

    Thanks

    Alan
     
    Last edited: 5 Oct 2015
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