satinwood paint odours on hardwood covered woodgrain doors

[ib44]

Recently we changed 11 panel plywood covered doors varnished for these fake woodgrain ones whose paintwork was already primed. After the painter applied one coat of oil based under coat we noticed a fairly heavy odour. We opened all windows during the application and put fans around the bungalow to exhaust the fumes to the outside. Over the next two days he top coated with a high voc satinwood paint and the fumes increased considerably. Despite exhausting the fumes as best we could we had to sleep in the property and since that time we have all developed throat and chest problems.

The questiona are the folowing
1 is there a recommendation that for all internal hardwood skinned doors you should only use a water based or low voc paint.
2 - Are their any other members with similar experiences?
3 - Is the reason for the contining out gasing 7 days later that hollow doors of hardboard absorb the paint to a great depth and that it also exhausts internally to the cavity and when the central heating comes on
it continues to out gas into the rooms.
We removed all the majority of doors yesterday and the paint odour after central heating goes on is considerable less.

If anyone has advice or similar experiences it will be gratefully received.

Many thanks

ianb

 

[xerxes]

You might do better to get this post moved to Decorating and Painting.

 

[Robbie uk]

With painting such a large number of doors at the same time there is bound to be some odour as the paint is oil based. This usually clears after a couple of days. The quicker it can dry the quicker the smell will go. Some people are prone to chest complaints after using oil based paints. You can use water based paints which will have little or no smell. There is no chance what so ever of the fumes going into the cavity and around the bungalow. These types of doors can be painted in whatever paint you like. Central heating can increase the smell a bit but not usually that much. Painters will not usually smell it so much because we are using it every day. You can cut onions in half and leave them around the houise on saucers, this will absorb some of the smell when drying.

 

[ib44]

With painting such a large number of doors at the same time there is bound to be some odour as the paint is oil based. This usually clears after a couple of days. The quicker it can dry the quicker the smell will go. Some people are prone to chest complaints after using oil based paints. You can use water based paints which will have little or no smell. There is no chance what so ever of the fumes going into the cavity and around the bungalow. These types of doors can be painted in whatever paint you like. Central heating can increase the smell a bit but not usually that much. Painters will not usually smell it so much because we are using it every day. You can cut onions in half and leave them around the houise on saucers, this will absorb some of the smell when drying.

thanks very much for your response. The cavity I was referring to was meant to be the internal cavity of the door as it is not solid. With the hardboard skin only about 1/8 inch is it possible that fumes can also exhaust into that as well as through the outer skin. When i smell the solid wood frame the odour is significantly less that it is on the panels where there is not a solid inner. With one of the doors being close to a radiator when the room temperature rises the it starts to smell. That is after 7 days. Yesterday the carpenter removed all doors, less those to the bathroom and toilets, to the garage and the astmosphere in the building is odour free. For three days we used fresh onions and bowls of water in every room and exhausted fumes by fans and cross draughts where possible, however you have to close the windows down a little when you go to sleep.

When we awoke in the morning we all had sore throats and subsequently I developed laryngitis and a chest infection. Normally at this time of year when we get viruses they come serially first one then the other etc. Therefore we have assumed that we are sensitive to the chemicals in the paint.

In a three bedroom bungalow with all bedrooms,bathroom and airing cupboard in a central location from the internal hallway it is easy to see that at this location there will be a concentration of fumes. and what affect it could have on people when they are asleep. As you say painters are exposed to these fumes all day but they may not sleep in them with such a concentration over an 8 hour period.

What concerns me is that the manufacturer states that the paint should only be used in well ventilated areas and not in closed areas. However they have no definition of what that constitutes in their safety leaflet.

Following discussion with the manufacturers customer care department, I was advised that the small entry porch that has two internal doors should probably be considered as a closed area. I was also advised that I probably should have used a low voc based paint.

I suggested that if that was the case they should give greater clarification to the use of high voc paints in domestic dwellings. Perhaps there should be some kind of warning on the tin saying that if large scale painting activity is going to be performed in a dwelling the property should be vacated for a specific period of time. It is interesting to note that in their safety leaflet they warn that food should not be prepared in the area where paint was being applied or drying. It does not say that on the tin.

If the doors are not completely odour free by the end of next week I will junk the lot and start again this time with solid panel doors and using a low voc or water based paint. An expensive lesson learnt £600 worth of doors for £40 worth of high voc paint. Thanks again for your consideration

 

[Robbie uk]

It will have nothing to do with the fact that the door is hollow or solid. Ventilated means to have some fresh air coming into the house when they are being painted. Generally when the paint is dry the smell will go. Heating will always make things more smellywhen it come on. toilet doors are the worse to do as you have to shut the door when painting it and you are in a confined area. You could always go over the doors with water based paint. It will not be the doors themselves. Food has a habit of drawing smells into it and as such is why they say to use cut in half onions to darw the smells.
We do from time to time paint our own houses and sleep in it aswell and dont suffer any ill effects. Some pepole are more prone to the smells of paint than others and that is why we may use water based products now and again.

 

[ib44]

It will have nothing to do with the fact that the door is hollow or solid. Ventilated means to have some fresh air coming into the house when they are being painted. Generally when the paint is dry the smell will go. Heating will always make things more smellywhen it come on. toilet doors are the worse to do as you have to shut the door when painting it and you are in a confined area. You could always go over the doors with water based paint. It will not be the doors themselves. Food has a habit of drawing smells into it and as such is why they say to use cut in half onions to darw the smells.
We do from time to time paint our own houses and sleep in it aswell and dont suffer any ill effects. Some pepole are more prone to the smells of paint than others and that is why we may use water based products now and again.

Thanks for your prompt reply; most considerate.
Last week after the painter had applied the oil based undercoat he tried to apply the new diamond satinwood low voc paint however as it was water based it did not apply properly and became patchy so he wiped it off and used the high voc satinwood. Your suggestion is that I could use this water based satinwood over the current finish. Would it mean that i would have to sand all doors completely in order to give it a key or can I paint over top. Best regards

 

[ifatfirst]

Every sympathy about your stinky paint problems. I've read all 88 "paint smell" references on diynot in one sitting. I've been researching non-stinky paint for interior woodwork, from an amateur point of view, after trying all sorts.

It would seem that for really sensitive people even Low VOC (0.3-7.99%) can be problematic and the only option may be Minimal VOC (0% to 0.29%) which will probably mean pretty rubbish finish.

I tried Wickes Master Quick Dry Gloss - water-based (VOC 0.3-7.99%) - the blurb stated "... so it does not give off an unpleasant odour". It was v stinky, even worse than standard gloss in a different way. I did eventually get the hang of how to apply it. I sat in a hat, gloves, coat and scarf for a month with all the windows open and fans going - wimpy diy-er!

Also tried in 2004 B&Q (all groan) brightwhite Gloss Low Odour (Minimal VOC 0% to 0.29%). This wasn't bad, probably the best I'd tried, poor coverage but not stinky. But after trailing through their website have been unable to find it now.

Have now looked at all the Satins and am hard pressed to come up with any Minimal VOC one. Most of the water-based ones are Low VOC, which may be fine for you, but most are not washable.

Farrow and Ball do a Water Based eggshell 750ml £15.50 (covers 9 sq m) 2.5l £41.50 (covers 30 sq m) and Estate Eggshell (VOC 5g/l) 750ml £15.50, 2.5l £41.50, 5l £67.50, both washable.

Wilkinson's water based primer and undercoat is wonderfully non-stinky and covers well but not sure if you can use a water-based undercoat over an oil-based gloss/satin you are painting over - think you should use an oil based undercoat, need expert help on that one.

I am thinking of having a go at Ecolibrium Natural Satin which is available at some Homebase and in some "proper" trade paint outlets 750ml £11.99. Made by Blackfriars and not as "eat your own sandals" as some ecopaints.

http://www.ecolibriumpaints.com/page.aspx?pId=259

A few reports that it's OK - but hope the experts on this site may be able to comment if they've tried it.

Wouldn't rush to dump the doors, the smell will wear off. Eleven doors in oil-based satin in a confined space would have most people desperate to leave. I'll happily use any sort of paint outdoors, but indoors is a different matter. Good luck with solving your problem.

 

[Growler]

ib44: . As you say painters are exposed to these fumes all day but they may not sleep in them with such a concentration over an 8 hour period.



We not only work in it 8 hours a day... we also have the problem of folk moaning constantly about it, and..........we also live in houses as well, believe it or not, and sleep with it...ooooerrrr.

Twas ever thus.

Open your windows and doors.

 

[ib44]

ib44: . As you say painters are exposed to these fumes all day but they may not sleep in them with such a concentration over an 8 hour period.



We not only work in it 8 hours a day... we also have the problem of folk moaning constantly about it, and..........we also live in houses as well, believe it or not, and sleep with it...ooooerrrr.

Twas ever thus.

Open your windows and doors.

Growler , Thank you for your advice; most useful. I have read many of your comments to others seeking advice with equally challenging responses. As Frankie Howard says oooooerrr missus and twas ever thus quotes from Up Pompei. The windows were open for 8 days and now all doors have been removed the smell gone except in the two bathrooms where despite 24 hour ventilaion the smell remains. Not moaning just fact.

best regards

 

[confidentincompetent]

What was the name Of paint used?
use paint in well ventilated area's means to have doors and windows open.

I mean it's nothing new that paint smells
Two weeks and all smells should go if house is vented. Is the heating on while your sleeping?
Open loft hatch

 

[Growler]

ib44: . As you say painters are exposed to these fumes all day but they may not sleep in them with such a concentration over an 8 hour period.



We not only work in it 8 hours a day... we also have the problem of folk moaning constantly about it, and..........we also live in houses as well, believe it or not, and sleep with it...ooooerrrr.

Twas ever thus.

Open your windows and doors.

Growler , Thank you for your advice; most useful. I have read many of your comments to others seeking advice with equally challenging responses. As Frankie Howard says oooooerrr missus and twas ever thus quotes from Up Pompei. The windows were open for 8 days and now all doors have been removed the smell gone except in the two bathrooms where despite 24 hour ventilaion the smell remains. Not moaning just fact.

best regards

You're welcome.