Secret Gate in Current Fencing?

[KarlPNE]

Afternoon folks and hello all. This is my 1st post here so please forgive me if I err.

I've just had new fencing fitted in my back garden and would like to know if it's a simple enough job for an amateur (me!) to make a gate access by simply adding 3 hinges and a gate fastener, and just 6 simple cuts to the current fencing?

I'd like it to appear as there's no gate from the outside, almost concealed from the alleyway.

I've only got a basic toolkit and no power tools etc.

I just want to hear of any tips or pitfalls to avoid before I start hacking!

Advice on hinges or fasteners etc would also be welcome.

Thanks all and please offer your thoughts.

Oops, please see my album for photos

Karl.

Outside fence from alleyway.

• KarlPNE
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

Hi folks. My first post here and hoping for some tips and advice on a successful attempt at...

Fence from inside my garden.

• KarlPNE
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

Close up of wood.

• KarlPNE
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

Batten 4" x 1.5"<br>Slats 4" x 7/8"

Base of post and current fencing.

• KarlPNE
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

End view

• KarlPNE
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

Plan view

• KarlPNE
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

Concrete post

• KarlPNE
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

 

[stem]

I did something similar for my mum whose garden backed on to a park. She didn't want the gate to be noticeable from the park side. So I just removed three uprights, took out the nails and then fixed them back using three hinges on the top horizontal. They were joined together at the bottom and it was locked in place using a bicycle lock through holes in the fixed and movable timbers.

It took less than an hour to make and was invisible from the public side. The downside was that you had to hold it up as you went through, whilst stepping over the bottom horizontal rail, but as it was only for occasional use it was fine.

Yours has a centre horizontal as well, so perhaps it's not quite so easy for you.

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• stem
• 6 Mar 2015
• 1

 

[wrathkeg]

You would need cross braces to hold the gate together and you would see those through the gaps between the boards.

 

[wrathkeg]

sorry hadn't seen stem's post when i posted mine. you wouldn't need cross braces, apparently

 

[nickjb]

I've done something similar. Mine definitely needed a cross brace. I fitted this before cutting and it has stayed pretty square. The hinges are visible but it is pretty subtle to the point that people occasionally park in front of it.

 

[KarlPNE]

Thanks for the suggestions and tips for cross braces. I will start by fitting 2 diagonal cross braces before I make the first cut.

I then plan to put a vertical cut through the top horizontal batten and secure a sturdy hinge across the cut. I'm guessing this will ensure a perfect fit and help to keep the 'gate' aligned with the original fence.

Next I'll repeat the same on the bottom batten and finish the final cut and hinge on the centre batten. Hopefully the hinges I've seen are sturdy enough not to let the gate sag when I make the final 3 cuts to the opening side to release the gate.

Two bolt locks, top and bottom, and some sort of gate fastener across the middle cut should complete the job? I'm just a bit concerned that a 'sawcut' wide gap might not be enough to allow the gate to open freely. It might jam and if so I'll have to shave a bit off the ends of the cut battens.

I just wish I had power tools. A jig-saw and power drill would be handy.

Wish me luck. Off to my local DIY shop I go! This should be fun.
I'll report back later with injury updates and blister count!

Karl

 

[r896neo]

I don't really get how this will work? It will make that bay of fencing sag badly unless the gate is for very very occasional use.

To do it properly you need a post either side of the opening which can carry the horizontal rails.

At the very least hammer in a piece of treated timber either side of the gate to reduce the sag on the rails.

 

[ladylola]

You would need cross braces to hold the gate together and you would see those through the gaps between the boards.

Very true but one option would be to use a tensioned steel cable running from the top hinge side to the bottom of the meeting edge. Not completely invisible but a lot less than a timber brace.

 

[KarlPNE]

Afternoon all again. Just a little update on my little venture. I'm no Tommy Walsh and this is my 1st try at some garden DIY. Please forgive me if it looks a bit Heath Robinson to the professionals.

I spent an enjoyable sunny afternoon going about my task of attempting to fit a discreet gate into my back garden fence panel. I'd purchased 3 hinges, some screws and a couple of bolt style locks from my local hardware shop for just £9.50. I just hope the hinges are up to the job. £1.75 each doesn't instil quality but funds are tight and I'll take the gamble.

Next problem was see what tools I had for the job. Here was my kit!

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

... and the all important Tommy Walsh pencil!...

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

The 1st cut on the top-left batten..

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

.. and the 1st hinge securely fitted..

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

I next cut the middle batten and fitted the hinge before finally cutting the bottom and fitting the final hinge.

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

I then cut the right-hand side of the top and bottom battens at an angle to allow easy opening of the gate and also provide a kind of stop to prevent the gate 'over-closing'

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

The middle batten was cut square to allow support should the gate sag. I didn't cut all the way through as I'm still undecided as to whether it will need cross braces to prevent sag, although I'd like to keep the view from the alleyway discreet. I will also probably need to widen the saw-cut gap a little to allow the gate to open freely once I complete the cut.

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

I also fixed a cheap bolt style lock on the top of the middle batten so I can just reach the bolt from the outside of the gate. With hindsight I might move the lock to the underneath of the batten to conceal it even more from the alleyway side of the fence.

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

I finally fitted a second bolt lock to the top batten so I can secure the gate from the inside of my garden once I arrive back from the shops

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

Here's the view from my garden. I will still need to remove some turf to allow the gate to actually open freely or perhaps lay a flag?. The view from the alleyway is virtually invisible apart from 6 saw-cuts and the bolt lock on the middle batten.

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

I've still to make the final 1/4" cut to the middle batten to release the gate and no doubt make some adjustments in case of any sag. I'm guessing the middle batten saw-cut will need a little widening and I'm pretty sure I'll need to fit a couple of diagonal cross battens for support. I visited my local timber supplier but couldn't find the right sized wood for the cross pieces.

Wish me luck tomorrow

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• KarlPNE
• 8 Mar 2015
• 1

 

[Andyc84]

You would need cross braces to hold the gate together and you would see those through the gaps between the boards.

Very true but one option would be to use a tensioned steel cable running from the top hinge side to the bottom of the meeting edge. Not completely invisible but a lot less than a timber brace.

I would suggest doing this, otherwise the only thing stoping the gate from sagging will be the strength of those hinges, and I personally wouldn't leave it to those. You may be better off buying some better hinges...

 

[r896neo]

The only thing supporting your fence boards is the fact that the rails span and are fixed into a post at either end.

By cutting the rails midway between posts and attaching hinges where you have the full weight of the gate section is all being carried by the end of the cut rail. Hopefully the cut rails spans across more than one post.

If they don't your gate will sag almost immediately as the force and weight of the gate creates a turning force on the fixing attaching the post to the rail.

This is why a gate should be hung off a post. You need to support these cut rail ends with something whether that be a new post or even a hammered in stump.

 

[cajar]

Could the hinges not be hung off the concrete post

 

[KarlPNE]

You would need cross braces to hold the gate together and you would see those through the gaps between the boards.

Very true but one option would be to use a tensioned steel cable running from the top hinge side to the bottom of the meeting edge. Not completely invisible but a lot less than a timber brace.

I would suggest doing this, otherwise the only thing stoping the gate from sagging will be the strength of those hinges, and I personally wouldn't leave it to those. You may be better off buying some better hinges...

Yes, thanks, I am still a little concerned about those hinges. They were the best I could find in the limited range at my local hardware store. I might have to look at some sturdier ones at my B&Q DIY. They seem to have better quality stock. My hinges were only £1.75 each which doesn't instil confidence in their strength etc.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[KarlPNE]

The only thing supporting your fence boards is the fact that the rails span and are fixed into a post at either end.

By cutting the rails midway between posts and attaching hinges where you have the full weight of the gate section is all being carried by the end of the cut rail. Hopefully the cut rails spans across more than one post.

If they don't your gate will sag almost immediately as the force and weight of the gate creates a turning force on the fixing attaching the post to the rail.

This is why a gate should be hung off a post. You need to support these cut rail ends with something whether that be a new post or even a hammered in stump.

I see what you mean. I was unsure as to how close I should put the hinges to the left hand concrete post. I thought about the support and hoped that my choice will be sufficient. I also wondered about the gate width and I think with hindsight it might be too wide. I was trying to keep it symmetrical between the concrete posts. A narrower gate opening would have put less strain on the hinges I guess?

The cross rails are bolted securely to the concrete posts and the do indeed span to the next posts either side out of the pictures. There shouldn't be a problem with any sag of the cross pieces.

My concern is still those hinges. I've still to make that final cut in the middle cross piece to release the gate completely. I still need to get some suitable wood for the 2 diagonal supporting cross pieces but I'm dying to make the final cut and see how it swings etc.

Fortunately the gate won't be getting too much use and will only be used by myself. Perhaps 3 times a week and I will treat it with care, lifting the gate as I open it if support is needed.

If it all goes to pot I'll just have to fit 3 simple metal straps across the cuts to return it to a complete fence again and admit defeat! "You can hardly see the join!" as Eric used to say

Thanks again for your advice.

 

[KarlPNE]

Crikey!

I don't half know how to make a simple job a bloody disaster! (I can see this thread being relocated to the DIY Disasters thread!)

The job's on hold after a little injury and it seems I'm not as fit as I used to think I was.

After finally sourcing some wood for the diagonal cross pieces and sawing them and initially tacking them into place, I then needed to access the fence from the outside in the alleyway for the final screws to be fit. I thought I'd hop over my side fence to save me making the long detour around the houses. Bad idea. I've done this many times as a short-cut to the shops but this time was one time too many. As I dropped down after my leap I heard a crack and my ankle went over. It was painful. I had to hobble back into my house.

*** Avert your eyes or avoid clicking on this photo if you're squeamish ***

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• KarlPNE
• 11 Mar 2015
• 1

I'll be back to eventually make that final cut when I'm able to walk again. Please be patient. This gate is not going to beat me!!