Shamima was smuggled in by WESTERN inteligence!

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Pat ex said:
Of course you don't, and you are entitled to your opinion. But to claim to presume her guilt on body language is contrary to normal British Justice.
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But I am NOT a judge hearing the case am I? Like thousands all over the world I am allowed a voice in pubs, coffee houses and forums so what is your problem.
 
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She's ours so we should deal with her.
We know why she left the country.
She is found to have acted to leave the country to support an international terrorist organisation, I believe.
She did do that much in the UK.
Bang her up.
 
Pat ex said:
Of course the power exists, no-one is denying that, but only to be used in legal and acceptable instances.
The issue is whether this was a legal and acceptable instance?
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Apparently Notch is by saying it was illegal. again, they are not arguing the revocation was illegal. They are asking for the decision to be reconsidered. Its worth remembering there is a lot of confidential information surrounding this that the Home Secretary was briefed on.

Her legal team are clutching at a straw, by saying she may have been trafficked and using this for the basis of the appeal [to the court of public opinion]. Odd that in all this time and all the hearings, she has never made this claim, nor has her legal team explored it. A sixth form legal student would know this, if true would have been the best angle to explore.

This will likely get kicked down the road until Mar-23 as there are other cases being heard which are similar.
 
just pumps said:
Indeed. Has anybody seen the programm where she is giving an interview and was shown to be a liar by a body reading expert, little upturn of lips into a small smile, movement of eyes and pauses when answering questions all of which are the sort of things that you cant control and hide.
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If you didn't know, there's no science behind that sort of stuff. It makes great TV but it's rubbish, no different from divination, palm reading or psychic readings.
 
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IT Minion said:
If you didn't know, there's no science behind that sort of stuff. It makes great TV but it's rubbish, no different from divination, palm reading or psychic readings.
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I would suggest you are wrong, for the most part. There are several such programs where they analyse peoples reactions and generally they are consistent as well as explaining in detail how they arrive at their conclusions.
 
It is a bit of a euphemism to describe someone who gives information to the Canadian authorities in return for money as an 'agent' or 'spy, i believe the correct term is informer, as such, the Canadians wouldn't really have much control over his other activities.
 
gasbusters said:
If the claims are true, and its looking like they are, this is gona turn into a massive scandal and will seriously damage the reputation of British and Canadian intelligence agencies for the fact they knowingly allowed and even helped British children to cross into Syria knowing most would likely die, and it seems for no other reason than for propoganda clout.

The 5hit is about to hit the fan spectacularly.
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Don't know what the fuss is about.
It has long been the practice of intelligence agencies and governments to use fundamentalists of all types overthrow uncooperative regimes.
At one time we had Obama on the telly telling the world that the rebels in Syria were 'just ordinary folks fighting to overthrow an evil dictator'.
It was only when graphic images appeared on YouTube of civilians being burnt alive in cages, or being thrown of roofs by these 'ordinary folks' that the truth came out.
There was at one time an ambivalence by the political class in Europe and America as to who was the bad guy in the Syrian Civil war, it was only when these 'ordinary folks' started blowing themselves up in Europe instead of Syria that attitudes changed.
 
Harry Bloomfield said:
Are you suggesting that even you, cannot frequently tell by how someone reacts, that they are lying? How obvious of course, varies from subject to subject, but so can the skill of the person looking for the signs.
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Again, no. Most trained interrogators can't by behaviour alone. When tested they do barely better than chance. They detect lies by using questioning techniques and listening to what is said.

Im not suggesting it, I'm explaining what the FBI says is the reality around interrogation.
 
body language but not behaviour. Liars have to pause to make the story up and add detail in their head before sharing. Interrogation will go forwards backwards, high level and zoomed in, in order to trip the liar up as they struggle to piece the story together. Someone telling the truth will largely just share. Skilful liars are able to convince themselves and imagine the whole fiction.

Some people look dishonest even when telling the truth, sadly a lot of the unlucky ones end up getting convicted.
 
motorbiking said:
body language but not behaviour. Liars have to pause to make the story up and add detail in their head before sharing. Interrogation will go forwards backwards, high level and zoomed in, in order to trip the liar up as they struggle to piece the story together. Someone telling the truth will largely just share. Skilful liars are able to convince themselves and imagine the whole fiction.

Some people look dishonest even when telling the truth, sadly a lot of the unlucky ones end up getting convicted.
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Yes, the pdf is quite interesting on the various techniques that allow liars to trip themselves up.
 
motorbiking said:
Apparently Notch is by saying it was illegal
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I think it is illegal.

It is not legal to remove somebodies citizenship if it renders them stateless.

The measure could only be imposed on Shamima Begum because her parents are of Bangladeshi descent and so she could be eligible to apply for Bangladeshi nationality.

Proving Bangladeshi citizenship is complex and comes down to rather thin arguments.

And Bangladesh stated it would refuse Begum entry into Bangladesh because she is not a citizen…..which to to indicates she could never apply for citizenship.
 
Pat ex said:
Of course you don't, and you are entitled to your opinion. But to claim to presume her guilt on body language is contrary to normal British Justice.
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just pumps said:
But I am NOT a judge hearing the case am I? Like thousands all over the world I am allowed a voice in pubs, coffee houses and forums so what is your problem.
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No-one suggested you were a judge.
You suggested she was guilty (of whatever she is accused of) by some 'expert' studying her body language.
I pointed out that is not acceptable in British Justice.
You gave your opinion, and I countered it with it not being a worthwhile opinion for British Justice.
It is, as you say, a bar room decision, but it's still not acceptable in British Justice.
Now what is your problem?
 
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