shorting a switch

[kevin_robson]

I have a 3 pole switch box in my hallway. Two of these are also wired to a 2 pole switch upstairs so the landing light and hallway light can be switched on from either upstairs or downstairs.

The third pole of the switch is for outside security lights. Trouble is the missus keeps knocking them off by mistake by pressing the wrong switch, so I want to make them permanently on

I've had a quick look behind the switch and it all looks a bit complicated, and the wires are fairly short meaning I cant see what is written on them. Are these all a standard design, and if so which terminal will be for the leftmost switch?

What is the best way to do this - remove the wires from the bottom of the switch and put them in the top as well, or put a new peice of wire linking the top and bottom of the switch, or doesn't it matter?

If I want to put another isolating switch in the porch for these, is it just a case of cutting the cable and putting another standard switch box in?

Thanks

 

[davy_owen_88]

The best thing to do would be to trace the switch cable for the outside lights back to a junction box and just remove the switch wire from there. There may not be a junction box if there is a neutral terminal block at the light switch or at the light fittings themselves but the same thing can be achieved by swopping the switched live with the permanent live from the feed and disconnecting the switch cable entirely.

If you want a switch for the outside light just run a new switch cable to where you want it and fit a standard 1 gang 1 way switch.

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks for the quick reply. I'm not sure I totally understand though.
The current cable goes from the light switch inside the house under plaster and outside. There is no other terminal for it. I'd prefer to do all this inside switch box if possible, and without the need for any plastering?
Sorry if I've misunderstood any of that.

 

[JohnD]

You might like to consider a 3-gang (not 3-pole) Gridswitch assembly, with a "secret key" switch for the lights you don't want to be frequently turned on and off, and ordinary tumblers for the others.

This is a method commonly used in shops and offices.

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks. I did a quick search but didn't find anything. Can you post a link?
If I decide to keep what I have can I just short out that switch?

 

[JohnD]

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/cat.jsp?cId=A331912&ts=22205

 

[didthathurt]

You would use one of these
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK3703.html

Something like this
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MK0892.html

though they will fit into this also
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/AP628.html

and then 2 of these
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4882.html

and one of these
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK4917.html

and one of these to finish it off
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK3633.html

or such like.

If you short the switch out as you suggest, there's always the chance someone will think it's switched off and.....

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks for your help. I'm not convinced about these though - much too big for where I want to put them. I understand about the safety thing so how about another approach.

I could swap the 3 gang for a 2 gang. Wire in the hall and landing switches as before, and use a terminal block to hard wire the exterior lights? OK so far?

Can anyone post a wiring diagram of what I have currently i.e. can switch upstairs light from either upstairs or downstairs, and downstairs light from either upstairs or downstairs.

If I just copy what is there will the terminals be the same on the two gangs, or will the arrangement be different? This is why I was hoping to keep the same switch.

Or finally, can the third switch of my existng switch be replaced by a blanking plate of some description?

Thanks again.

 

[davy_owen_88]

I could swap the 3 gang for a 2 gang. Wire in the hall and landing switches as before, and use a terminal block to hard wire the exterior lights? OK so far?

Yup

Can anyone post a wiring diagram of what I have currently i.e. can switch upstairs light from either upstairs or downstairs, and downstairs light from either upstairs or downstairs.

It should be clear which conductors are for the outside light. It should only use common and L1 whereas the other 2 switches will be utilising the L2 terminal. There are lots of diagrams in the WIKI.

If I just copy what is there will the terminals be the same on the two gangs, or will the arrangement be different? This is why I was hoping to keep the same switch.

The terminals might be in different positions (a problem if the cables are extremely tight) and the terminals might be marked differently but you can work those out.

Or finally, can the third switch of my existng switch be replaced by a blanking plate of some description?

Are they 3 separate switches (ie on separate patresses?) If so then yes, you can do the terminal block idea and just replace the front. If it is 3 switches on a single patress then no.

 

[kevin_robson]

Thanks. I've had a look at the wiki. Will try to havea look at the current setup and see if I can unpick how its been done. Would have preferred a bit more slack on the socket and I could have seen a bit better but will see how I go.