Shower Pump help!

[alexg]

Good evening all,

Hi there,

I am just renovating my cottage and I need some shower pumps.

My existing pump is a Salamander Contract 50 (1.5 bar) twin which supplies a single shower located roughly adjacent to the hot water tank on the first floor. This pump sprung a leak which made itself apparent when living room ceiling collapsed! This obviously needs to be replaced.

I have just fitted a Victorian 6" can head to this shower (the previous head was about 4" and supplied excellent pressure), so I was wondering whether there was any benefit in moving up to a CT75 (2.1 bar) pump to get a little extra pressure... Does this sound like a good idea?

Additionally, I am also in the process of building an ensuite bathroom in my loft-room which will feature a sink, toilet and bath (not enough headroom in the eaves for a shower cubicle). The cold water tank sits at this level so I will require a negative head pump that is fully automatic (so it kicks in automatically when the toilet is flushed)... I'm on a budget, so does anyone have any suggestions on units to buy (I could go with another Salamander)...

Both pumps will have to live in the airing cupboard next to the hot water tank... there might not be room to have them side-by-side, so can they be mounted one above the other on a solidly-built trestle?... and if so, which should go at the top?

Last but not least, will I need any special valves etc for the toilet if used with a negative head pump?

thanks


Alex

 

[Fluffster]

Can you not get a mains feed to the outlets and just pump the hot?

Pete

 

[crockett]

What about when the cold mains pressure fluctuates??
I would keep both feeds pumped, if that is your wish, and a larger capacity pump won't hurt, bar helping the cylinder to run out of hot water a bit quicker !!

If you want to supply more than one bathroom with decent pressure, why not run a larger capacity pump, say a 3 or even 4 bar pump ?? I know you mentioned cost, but you can't have everything I'm afraid

 

[alexg]

I've been hunting about and I can get a Salamander CT75 twin impeller pump for about £115... this would replace the existing CT50 and supply the main shower albeit with slightly improved pressure.

With regards to the negative pressure pump, I guess the best option would be the Techflow QT45-2 NHG with automatic switching... it's not the cheapest, but it is apparently quiet (important as it will be the only pump servicing a WC)... I can get one of these for about £248 plus another £15 for the Techflow flange they recomment for fitting.

I might be able to squeeze them one in front of the other by placing them on cut sections of paving slab resting on a foam base (I will need to keep them independantly damped to reduce fatigue on the other pump).

All up parts cost excluding new pipes etc would therefore be under £400 which should still be cheaper than a negative head 'one house' system.

Does this all sound about right?

cheers

 

[Fluffster]

I would say the cold water pressure fluctations should not be a problem as he is not installing a shower.
Your right though about going the hole hog and having a whole house pump installed.
3/4 bar pump would be about £380 less than 2 pumps and should fit in your hwc cupboard with ease too.

Pete

 

[alexg]

I would say the cold water pressure fluctations should not be a problem as he is not installing a shower.
Your right though about going the hole hog and having a whole house pump installed.
3/4 bar pump would be about £380 less than 2 pumps and should fit in your hwc cupboard with ease too.

Pete

A Techflow whole-house system with negative head will be about £600 surely?

 

[Fluffster]

Sorry I forgot about the neg head situ and was thinking of this type of pump.
Pete


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Salamander-RH...39:1|66:2|65:12|240:1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

 

[bab]

If u have reasonable water mains pressure have u considered a replacement mains fed stainless cylinder. no pumps required at all. very quiet to run & no large f/e cistern in loft.

 

[crockett]

As was mentioned, bab, the OP would like to try and keep costs down, so going for one of these could work out to be quite an expense

 

[alexg]

If u have reasonable water mains pressure have u considered a replacement mains fed stainless cylinder. no pumps required at all. very quiet to run & no large f/e cistern in loft.

that sounds both quite dramatic and also quite expensive to sort out... other than replacing the already knackered pump, my basic plan only involves adding another negative head unit...

 

[muggles]

I'd go with a larger negative head pump to feed your requirements, they aren't the cheapest things in the world I know but it's a whole lot cheaper than an unvented cylinder, which is your other option.

Salamander make the ESP75 CPV, which is a pump that will give you up to 2.25 bar pressure, it's Continuous rated and will work on negative head systems. It's also reasonably priced here http://www.inspirationsbathrooms.com/invt/electr2197&bklist= at £286.00

If you want a bit more oomph there's also the ESP100CPV (up to 3.0 bar) which they're selling at £320.00 http://www.inspirationsbathrooms.com/invt/electr2198. I'd say for the extra £40 that's well worth it if you can stretch to it. Beware the ESP140CPV, it's not continuous rated (20 mins on/off) and could well therefore be unsuitable.

I've not researched prices, so it might be worth looking around the net, this was the first website I came to.

Hope that helps

 

[alexg]

I'd go with a larger negative head pump to feed your requirements, they aren't the cheapest things in the world I know but it's a whole lot cheaper than an unvented cylinder, which is your other option.

Salamander make the ESP75 CPV, which is a pump that will give you up to 2.25 bar pressure, it's Continuous rated and will work on negative head systems. It's also reasonably priced here http://www.inspirationsbathrooms.com/invt/electr2197&bklist= at £286.00

If you want a bit more oomph there's also the ESP100CPV (up to 3.0 bar) which they're selling at £320.00 http://www.inspirationsbathrooms.com/invt/electr2198. I'd say for the extra £40 that's well worth it if you can stretch to it. Beware the ESP140CPV, it's not continuous rated (20 mins on/off) and could well therefore be unsuitable.

I've not researched prices, so it might be worth looking around the net, this was the first website I came to.

Hope that helps

Do really need that much pressure just to run cold water to the wc, sink and bath and hot water to the sink & bath?.... there will be a hand-held shower-connection for the shower, but nothing that needs much in the way of pressure.... I just need enough to get it upstairs....

 

[alexg]

I'd go with a larger negative head pump to feed your requirements, they aren't the cheapest things in the world I know but it's a whole lot cheaper than an unvented cylinder, which is your other option.

Salamander make the ESP75 CPV, which is a pump that will give you up to 2.25 bar pressure, it's Continuous rated and will work on negative head systems. It's also reasonably priced here http://www.inspirationsbathrooms.com/invt/electr2197&bklist= at £286.00

If you want a bit more oomph there's also the ESP100CPV (up to 3.0 bar) which they're selling at £320.00 http://www.inspirationsbathrooms.com/invt/electr2198. I'd say for the extra £40 that's well worth it if you can stretch to it. Beware the ESP140CPV, it's not continuous rated (20 mins on/off) and could well therefore be unsuitable.

I've not researched prices, so it might be worth looking around the net, this was the first website I came to.

Hope that helps

I've just been looking at this idea and it certainly has lots of merit... However, I have one or two concerns...

1.) Can the pump supply both negative and positive heads at the same time (ie. flushing the upstairs loo and having a shower downstairs)?

2.) Is the switching completely automatic (ie. fit and forget)?

3.) If I was having a shower downstairs and someone flushed the loo upstairs, would I get scolded by a sudden decrease in cold water supply to the shower?

... Question no.3 is the most important one... I would surely avoid this scenario with two pumps, but what about with just one?

(p.s. I have called Salamander and they weren't sure?!?!... they're going to get back to me?!?!?!?)

cheers

 

[Fluffster]

Q1 Yes
Q2 Yes
Q3 No unless your cold water storage tank runs dry. Check out the flow rate aswell as pressure as this is important nwhen feeding multiple outlets.

Pete