Smart heating control for 2 zone system

[dstill]

Hi, just looking for some guidance on the following please.

I've decided to upgrade my standard heating controls to a smart system. My heating system is 2 zone with two room programmers, one on the ground and one on the first floor. The ground floor one also controls the domestic hot water. I have a gas boiler with a pressurised hot water cylinder.

Could anyone recommend a suitable system that is reliable and that will integrate with Alexa please?

 

[omega015]

Are you wanting to just make the programmers smart / control the 2 zones? Or are you wanting to look at individual room control?

 

[dstill]

Are you wanting to just make the programmers smart / control the 2 zones? Or are you wanting to look at individual room control?

Hi, thanks for your reply, I'm just wanting to have a two smart room thermostats, one in each zone.

 

[omega015]

In that case you probably can't go wrong with Nest or Hive, but obviously will need the extra thermostats/heatlink from them. Is this going to be a self install or getting someone in to install it? (Hive offer install service).

I havent used them personally (although I've installed Nest which is easy enough) so cannot comment on their features and reliability but they've been around a while and are the bigger known ones, so I suspect they would be fine. I have used Honeywell's Evohome for 15 years without many issues and is great but thats designed for individual room/radiator control.

 

[ericmark]

I have Nest Gen 3 and Wiser installed. I don't like the Nest, but first one has to decide in fullness of time how far you will go, even if not now.

So smart features that you may want.
1) Geo-fencing, turns off heating when you leave the house and back on when you return.
2) Manual at distance control, i.e. need to get phone out to turn on or off.
3) Individual room control. This can be subdivided.
A) Manual
B) Using Bluetooth
C) Using Wifi
D) Linked to the boiler

Oddly, the Nest will not link to TRV heads.
Hive also has some odd things, like not taking a demand for heat if thermostat over 22ºC
So would say the big 3, Tado, Evohome, and Wiser. I found Tado hard to get info on, so I went for Wiser, not run a winter with it yet, so can't really comment.

 

[dstill]

.......well, its been nearly 4 months since I posted this and the Xmas holidays have been the only chance for me to get some time to progress, shocking I know!!!

I've narrowed down my options to the Honeywell T6R. The cables are already there from the old thermostat but I've had to go with this wireless model as its the only Honeywell T6 model that can also manage the hot water controls from the same unit.

My first question now is this........would I be able to replace the thermostat in the upstairs zone by simply fitting the Honeywell T6 (as this zone doesn't control hot water) or would this cause some conflict with the T6R thermostat?

My second question is I wanted the smart thermostat to link to individual smart TRV'S throughout the house but I dont think the T6R can do this. Therfore, would it cuaee any issues having the TRV'S working through another app separate to the room thermostats?

Continued appreciation for everybody's input.

 

[CountryFan]

To do that you may need evohome, which can become expensive. No you can’t just replaced the thermostat upstairs with the T6R, it would need to be the receiver. From what you describe, Wiser kit 3 may be more suitable or Tado?

 

[ericmark]

I would agree with @CountryFan the Wiser system would seem to better suit your needs.

The biggest problem seems to be finding out what system will do what. Wiser does seem to be adaptable to suit most, I have never really worked out why we have zones within zones, the linked electronic TRV head turns the home into a multi-zone system, so why group those into zones as well?

 

[CountryFan]

I have never really worked out why we have zones within zones, the linked electronic TRV head turns the home into a multi-zone system, so why group those into zones as well?

I would have thought because the individual TRVs don’t send a switch live to the boiler, but the actual heating zone does.

 

[ericmark]

I would have thought because the individual TRVs don’t send a switch live to the boiler, but the actual heating zone does.

But it does, a round about route yes, but the TRV head in wife's bedroom signal is boosted by a socket adaptor, and the hub will fire the boiler when required.

I don't have a modulating boiler, so on/off in my case, but with a modulating boiler it can cause the boiler to ramp its output up or down as required, where the hard-wired zone valve can only turn it on/off, so with many systems the use of TRV's as zone valves is far better than the hard-wired versions.

There are exceptions of course, my house split into main house and flat, with the whole of flat not used in winter, so turning off flat with a hard-wired zone valve including the pump for that section of central heating makes sense.

But for the main house, turning on the heating with slight delay room to room, ensures the primary rooms are heated faster, being able to measure multi-rooms

it is quite surprising how much variation room to room, OK two of the rooms are not heated.

 

[CountryFan]

But it does, a round about route yes, but the TRV head in wife's bedroom signal is boosted by a socket adaptor, and the hub will fire the boiler when required.

So, indirectly not directly firing the boiler?

 

[ericmark]

So, indirectly not directly firing the boiler?

I suppose so, but the wall thermostat also connects to the boiler through the hub, so also indirect.

 

[ericmark]

Sorry @dstill side tracked a bit, we are told the systems are easy to set up, a monkey could do it, but seems you're short of monkeys in Hartlepool

What I found was some systems use an independent hub, as with Wiser, and some connect to the wall thermostat, as with Kasa, and with the latter the wall thermostat has to be hardwired. Since I don't have wiring for a thermostat in the living room, I could not use the Kasa wall thermostat, but these systems are growing and being added to every month, I see you can get a remote sensor to connect to the Kasa TRV head.

Some seem to work the wrong way around, Energenie the wall thermostat controls the TRV, it was the same with Nest, until Google took over, now Energenie TRV heads with not work with Nest Gen 3.

The idea of a central control panel

as used with Evo Home, seems good, but today I use voice commands, hey google set living room to 22 degrees works well for me. We see options like this with many systems, and we can use Google Nest Mini's or Alexa to control our heating.

There is no reason why you should not have 6 wall thermostats in parallel, so if any of the 6 rooms are too cold, the boiler will fire, but that is a lot of work wiring up, when with Drayton Wiser you can do it without having to run wires to each thermostat. But I had to ask on this forum to find out if I can pair a Wiser wall thermostat with a Wiser TRV head, answer it seems is yes, just assign them to same room, but the point is I could not find that info from the instructions.

Hive is now a mess, as there are so many Hive thermostats, and with early Hive the TRV could only switch on the thermostat with a demand for heat, if the thermostat was under 22°C, and Hive did not have OpenTherm, some Hive today do have OpenTherm, but not a clue which. The same with Tado, they stopped doing OpenTherm for a time in the UK, and then started again, and I have no idea which do and which do not have some functions.

I would have thought because the individual TRVs don’t send a switch live to the boiler, but the actual heating zone does.

This is a problem, there are so many options between different makes of heating controls, it is far too easy to get it wrong. And I did, started with Energenie, added Nest Gen 3, which did not integrate as the web search said, added eQ-3 which will only talk to each other and one phone, then went to Kasa (TP-Link and Tapo) found thermostat needed hard-wiring, and finally to Drayton Wiser, even that found one room out of range, and had to add a socket adaptor which acts as a relay.

I also fitted motorised valves, so can select main house or flat, and have a complex system with two pumps and relays, which in hindsight, and hindsight is easy, could have done with one pump, and not hard-wired motorised valves had I gone with Wiser to start with.

Note, Tapo and Tado are not the same, easy to not realise. And some smart thermostat do not connect to TRV heads this

last time I looked, does connect to internet, but not to TRV heads. The reason I have learnt how to control central heating, is because I got it wrong the first time, and had to do it again, I thought Nest was the bees knees, but found I was wrong. However, in my old open-plan house it would have worked fine.

 

[dstill]

As you know I was considering the Honeywell T6 range, according to their technical department using T6 room thermostats , one for each zone is not possible with my 2 zone system, response from them below.

Hi,

Unfortunately no, you cannot link 2 thermostats T6 with the same recover.

Each receiver has one or 2 channels.
The ones with 1 channel are controlling only heating the one with 2 channels controls heating and hot water as you requested. The one with two channel can be used for 2 T6R but only for heating.

You should have 2 separate zone valves for each floor and control them with each receiver box and his thermostat.

 

[cdbe]

I had a similar 2 zone system and was advised to ditch the zones. I went for Wiser and although they do a HW plus two htg zone set up I fitted smart TRVs in the four bedrooms for £120 - so I was able to remove a zone valve from the system and gain individual room control upstairs. Downstairs is a large open plan controlled by the wiser stat, plus a separate lounge where I will fit another smart TRV when I refurbish the room.