Smart meters?

[ross94]

Hi all, I am sure this has been covered but what is the deal with smart meters? Do they work? My parents have told me they are getting one fitted in april, I have asked them why they want one and they said want to try it out and are convinced it will save them money, I have tried to explain to them about the possible health risks,microwave interference and possible spying but they think its all nonsense. Maybe I am just being paranoid and believing too many articles "stop smart meters" but I honestly don't know what to think? Should I stop them getting one?
Any experience with these smart meters and do they benefit you in anyway or is it all just a scam?

Any help would be great on this because I don't want any harm to come to my parents. cheers

 

[big-all]

smart meters do not save you money as your energy costs the same as before
working out where your energy is going will help but a smart meter is not the answer it is only a rather crude tool with often highly misleading conclusions formed off use by not fully understanding exactly what is using the power
for example a 60w normal bulb will burn far more energy than all your household items on standby

 

[ross94]

Thanks I will try to convince them but I'm not holding my breath they will listen tho. Worst case are they harmful?

 

[omega015]

You will not instantly save any energy/money by having one installed. If anything you might spend a few extra £/p by plugging in the display to see the usage. However they can highlight usage patterns and maybe make you more aware of your usage but unless your the kind of household leaving lights on and having electric heaters on etc... then its unlikely to alter your usage habits.

The main benefits of smart meters are mostly for the network operators/energy suppliers as they wont have to employ someone to read the meter, they can get more accurate bills to you, they can switch off the supply if/when required. They could also gain from the data they collect as to the usage patterns and/or alter their pricing/tariffs to suit. As for the "radiation/microwaves etc.." do they have a TV, microwave, mobile phone, wireless thermostat, radio etc... All produce some form of waves and I seriously doubt a smart meter will produce anything more harmful than those.

 

[Diver Fred]

First question is 'does a mobile 'phone work where the meter is located?'
if 'Yes' then the advantages/disadvantages have been outlined above - but they are mainly in the benefit of the supplying companies.
if 'No' then they are a waste of time and money.

BTW - the unseen cost of switching to a 'Smart' meter is reported as £136 per meter which in the end the customer is paying as it will be included in the standing charge.

 

[ianniann]

Colossal waste of money really, mine and your money in the end, but whether or not your parents get one isn't going to change that.

All sorts of questions about whether new technology like this is safe, effective, secure, etc., but some people are less bothered than others. I won't be getting one until they turn up on my doorstep with a police escort, but then I'm either paranoid or understand the potential technical issues depending on your point of view.

The energy companies want them because they will have more timely and more detailed knowledge of power consumption without many of the costs. Good for them, as far as I'm concerned they already know precisely as much as they need to. Maybe it will benefit some dumb people who have no clue what energy they are going through, but to be honest if you really care it is relatively easy to find out without a smart meter. Energy companies used to send out those little clamp energy monitors - anyone who couldn't be bothered to try one of those isn't going to do better with a more expensive version. Give it 6 months and it'll just be another piece of junk in the attic.

 

[ross94]

I don't like the idea of them switching off the power remote when they feel like it, screw that. How would that work exactly? surely that would mean switching the whole house off! unless they fit certain devices to each appliance. thanks for the advice I will do my best to convince them not to get it but they have reached that age and you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[ross94]

Or at least wait till 2020 now that should be interesting.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi all, I am sure this has been covered but what is the deal with smart meters? Do they work? My parents have told me they are getting one fitted in april, I have asked them why they want one and they said want to try it out and are convinced it will save them money,

One day they will save money, but only after the electricity suppliers have introduced variable tariffs and people have got appliances which will negotiate with each other, and with the supplier via the smart meter, to work out when they should run, for the fridge and tumble drier to agree to alternate etc.

Until that day, no - they won't.

I have tried to explain to them about the possible health risks,microwave interference and possible spying but they think its all nonsense.

I expect the first two are.

Spying I guess is technically possible, but they'd have to be a person of interest to the security services, or sophisticated burglars, for that to be a concern.

Hacking is a different matter, either just for malicious fun, or for some kind of ransom operation.

Any experience with these smart meters and do they benefit you in anyway or is it all just a scam?

I can't see who they benefit right now except the suppliers. Their main interest in having them installed now is reduced costs of recording usage, and the ability to disconnect people remotely.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

However they can highlight usage patterns and maybe make you more aware of your usage but unless your the kind of household leaving lights on and having electric heaters on etc AND the sort of people who just don't realise that lights and heaters cost money to run... then its unlikely to alter your usage habits.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I don't like the idea of them switching off the power remote when they feel like it, screw that. How would that work exactly? surely that would mean switching the whole house off!

Precisely.

The generators face an increasing problem of supply vs demand at a time when they didn't start to build new nuclear power stations 15 years ago and they are having to close down older more polluting ones. Although now the Americans have democratically voted to abolish climate change, and we are going to leave the EU and thus be able to control our borders and stop foreign CO2 from getting in, maybe the latter will become less of a problem.

Having more granular control over houses would mean they could turn off just some in any area, have rolling staggered outages, protect people who need power for medical devices and so on.

unless they fit certain devices to each appliance.

I can see how that could also be used - during times of shortfall your electric shower won't work, or your hob, or tumble drier etc.

thanks for the advice I will do my best to convince them not to get it but they have reached that age and you cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Aren't new tricks what smart meters are?

 

[ericmark]

I will admit I also can't see how smart meters help the consumer, already I have a current transformer so I can see exactly what I am using, I also have a plug in energy meter so I can monitor individual items, I was asked if I would have a smart meter for gas and I said yes, then they said they wanted to also at the same time do electric so they were told no thank you. I can see with gas as it stands I don't know what the central heating boiler uses, however that is the only gas appliance. And when I asked if the gas smart meter was IFTTT they had not a clue.

Unless the smart meter is IFTTT then it would need manual interaction to use the information given, in other words it's useless, if the smart meter is IFTTT then you could use the information to do things like turn down the temperature of the radiators if you are using too much power, you can also get it to auto inform you if there is some unexplained use of power, but to put it into a nutshell unless the smart meter is IFTTT then it's not really a smart meter its just a load of C***.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

as it stands I don't know what the central heating boiler uses

Yes you do - your bills tell you, so you can easily work out how long it would take to pay back the cost of removing it and putting in one which uses less.

In the meantime, just change the programming so that you heat the house for less time and to a lower temperature, then you'll save gas.

 

[winston1]

I will admit I also can't see how smart meters help the consumer, already I have a current transformer so I can see exactly what I am using, I also have a plug in energy meter so I can monitor individual items.

No you can't. A current transformer measures current. Those so called energy monitors also only measure current. To know what you are using in watts or £p you need three measurements not one, namely current, voltage, and power factor.

 

[ericmark]

No you can't. A current transformer measures current. Those so called energy monitors also only measure current. To know what you are using in watts or £p you need three measurements not one, namely current, voltage, and power factor.

OK for the current transformer it only measures amps, the plug in device measures watts and also shows power factor, but the one which clamps around the oncoming cable only measures amps. However at 230 volt it does give you a good idea of the watts used. It even gives you an idea of the Joules used, OK not calibrated in Joules it is calibrated in kilowatt/hours. 360 seconds in an hour so easy to convert into correct units.

But the whole idea is to show you what you are using and do something to reduce your bill. So we know the cooker and shower use a lot of power, so if the cooker is left on, or the shower is left on, then you want the smart meter to do something smart. Be it set off an alarm or turn off the power automatically for it to save money it has to do something. The IFTTT protocol would seem the logical method, the user needs to be able to use the information from the smart meter to do something.

A device like this

can be programmed to do something when it detects abnormal power use. Personally I don't use one, but it has the capability to do something, even if it only sends you a text message. It is a "Smart" device, this plug in device

is the same, it monitors and will allow some automated action so if it powered a fan heater you could set it up so if the power did not drop within an hour it will switch off, i.e. some one has left the window open. It is a "Smart" device. As to if Joe Public could work out which applications he needs to use to get some benefit from the device is not so easy, but the devices will do the job if you know how.

But the "Smart" meter as far as the house holder is concerned does no more than the simple current transformer given away free by many suppliers 5 years ago. They showed you how much you were using and when you were using it, and even sent the info to Scottish Power so the estimated bill although not 100% accurate was not that far off and was corrected once a year.

And in real terms many suppliers actually spread out the bill so you pay more in summer than you should so winter bills are not so high, many people like this, when we have heavy snow so you can't get to work, having a extra high gas bill is the last thing you want.

What I am saying unless the "smart" meter has something like IFTTT then it is simply not smart, and is being miss sold.