Smell in house and flooded subfloor

[s67]

Over the past few months we have been noticing a bad smell in the house from under the stairs. I moved all paper from there thinking it was damp paper etc. The smell remained.
Today I lfted a floor board from under the stairs and saw 6 inches + of water in the subfloor which looks to have been there decades.
I put a glass into it to check the colour and it had lots of suspended organic material in it which coated the glass but no sewerage.
About 6 months ago I had the wall under the stair treated for damp and did not have the plaster replaced which left a gap between the floor boards and the wall which is allowing the smell to penetrate much easier than between the T&G floor boards alone hence not noticing the smell sooner.
I have ordered a pump and will pump it out as soon as it arrives. I live in a 1942 semi detached and I am assuming this water is under next door too.
I have been told the houses in which I live are on a high water table but I am not so sure.
If I had not had the plaster hacked off allowing the smell out I would be non the wiser, but now I know the water is there I need it gone. I rang my insurance but they said they needed to know where it came from like a burst pipe etc. bfore they would act.

Has anyone else had this issue?

My plan of attack is this and if you have any suggestions please let me know.
1. Pump it out
2. monitor the situation over the next few week/months during heavy rain or hose pipe around the house.
3. depending on what happens above in 2 and I cant find a reason get an expert in.

 

[KenGMac]

Hi s67.

Suggest you consider the following?

1/. Whilst listening at the hatch in the floor that you have opened up you have someone turn on and fill all the Sinks, Wash Hand basins, and once full pull the plug, you may get lucky and hear water splashing into the under floor area, also try the WC?, and the bath/ Shower, anything that uses water, including the Washing Machine and the Dishwasher if possible?
if you hear water running into the under floor area during the above then it is an Insurance job, right away because. Any Escape of Water from what in insurance terms is from a "Fixed Domestic Installation" is an Insurable event! no exceptions at all!

2/. You could go back to the Insurer and simply state that because you are no expert in leaky pipes, but THINK? the word think is important that there is a leak below the floor can they send someone to check, you are not an Expert Plumber, the insurer has access to such people.
Obviously, if 1/. above confirms water running into the under building area, then you are home and dry [no pun intended] in getting the insurer to act.

3/. This is a long shot, but does your Insurance Policy have what is called in Insurance terms, Trace and Access? under this clause the insurer is obliged to pay up to at times £ 5,000 just to find / locate the leaky water pipe, or Waste pipe work, you unfortunately need to re-contact your Insurer or? troll your way through your Insurance Policy.

And the answer to the next question is yes I work in Insurance, well someone has to?

Ken

 

[s67]

Ken, thank you I will try all of those suggestions they are excellent.
I will also read the policy I have with Sheilas Wheels to see what I am covered for as I have been a bit lazy in that regard and just telephoned them expecting all my troubles to be solved on the off chance I am covered.

Martyn

 

[KenGMac]

s67, hi again

Bottom line is that you are no expert, the Insurer has access to some.

Just tell the Insurer that you think! that there is a leak?

Having re-read your original post you note that the water in the glass is not clear, if the water under your Property were to be Ground Water it would on the balance of probability be clear or almost clear, but given ti is not? it would point to a leak.

Is it possible that a Neighbor has a leak and not you? worth asking? of them as to whether or not they are experiencing similar problems?

Ken

 

[s67]

Hi, I will have a good read tomorrow, I did say to them I have no idea what it is and they said get a plumber or builder to have a look and one look at the water and the expert would know what the issue was. I asked where I would find such a person and they just said they cant do anything until its diagnosed. I will speak to the neighbour also.

 

[s67]

a quick update, i pumped out the water yesterday with a puddle pump, the water started to trickle back in , clear cold water flowing from the front of the house as I have the pump at the back so i am suspecting a leak. Maybe to the mains water pipe in the drive.

 

[s67]

another update , UU came today for another reason (neighbours blocked drain) he tested the water in the sub floor and it came up negative as tap water and instead confirmed it as rainwater, he found a cracked gulley. Although yesterday was a dry and sunny day he said water would continue to flood the space from the surounding ground as it was soaked.
It rained last last night and the water is now 50% where it was.
I am getting the gully fixed and will continue to pump the space out until hopefully it stops re filling.

 

[KenGMac]

s67, Hi again.

Do you have the report from your neighbors UU? [What do you mean by UU?]

Your post mentions that the Neighbour has had someone attend, Is it OK to assume that the Neighbour has made an insurance claim?

What you need to do is get digital images of the damage you have repaired, that is the damaged gully, get a load of photos, and I mean a LOAD of images that indicate the Gully is damaged, and if possible a report from the Neighbour,s Contractor stating the Gully is damaged!

It is inferred that your neighbour has been suffering a similar situation? this is supposition.

you need to get back on to your insurer, because, drain damage is covered by your insurer, you can claim back the cost of pumping the under-building out, plus the cost of repair to the Gully.

BUT! it is IMPERATIVE! that you advise your Insurer that you intend to repair the damaged gully yourself. Strongly advise that you do not get the Gully repaired without your Insurer giving you the OK to proceed, Your insurer may want to send out their own Contractor or Surveyor to inspect the damage PRIOR to any repairs. if you proceed to repair without referring to your Insurer, the Insurer can walk away from the claim!

On another front, ask your insurer to undertake a full CCTV Survey of the underground drain to ensure that the underground sections are not leaking, the gully may be only one area of the drain that is defective and leaking?

Strongly advise that you revert to using e mails in dealing with your insurer, a telephone call may not be "recorded" or " Logged" by the Claims Handler, at least you will have a record not just a distant remembered phone call, I am not saying that the Insurer will in any way renege on what you say in a phone call, but an e mail will remove all doubt!

Given what you have posted, it would appear that you have a valid insurance claim that should recompense you for all expenditure you have made or will make?

Hope this assists?

Ken

 

[s67]

hello by UU I mean United Utilities who are my utililites company here in the UK.
The gulley that is suspect looks damaged by the paving contractor who paved my drive. the Gully was a clay gully with a square top with a grill on it that the rainwater pipe discharged into the top of. They seem to have just hacked the top of it off and sat two surface water drains on it to collect the water from the paving.
They should have removed the clay gulley and put in a new modern one.

No-one has ever put a rod down it to damage it, its just bad workmanship.
I have read my insurance policy and bad workmanship is excluded.

The neighbour paid a private drain cleaning company £80 to jet her drains, it just pushed the issue (baby wipes) further down the run. As it was now blocking the whole street United Utilities are liable to clear it for free.
The block drains have northing to do with the flooded sub floor.
The block drains were a blessing in disguise as the Man from UU gave me advice on my water problem in addition to clearing the drains, he tested the water , he looked in the hole, he smelled it and using his years of experience & told me what it was then checked the gulleys and found the issue.
Until he turned up I thought it was a leaky water supply . he has saved me lots of time and effort.

UU also put a camera down the drains after they cleared it and said it was all good, just baby wipes.

The water has stopped rising and I have now have 50% less water than I used to so i will keep pumping and fix the gulley until all the water is gone (or not)

 

[s67]

I pumped it out again tonight and about an inch is left to just a small area that came in after I removed the pump. The odd thing is , its been pouring down now for an hour and the water looks to be going down not up. Maybe the gully despite its condition is not the source.