Socket Wiring Advice

[nero44]

Hello,

I am in the process of moving a few sockets out of the skirting board. I have done a few of them already, but uncovered a bit of a mess on this one (see picture below). This is on a ring main and there is a single socket exactly on the other side in the adjoining room, which I have moved up 2 weeks ago. I've already noticed these loose terminal blocks last week, but wanted to clean these up only now as I have better access from this side where I have a double socket.

- The two wires coming out the left and right side were connected to the socket [1&4]
- [5,2,3] all connect at these push-fit connectors
- [3] also has old cable colours, so I suspect that is the part of the original ring main going back down
- [5] is a single wire going up to the single socket in the adjoining room. When I moved that socket up I ran a new cable up and joined them with a Wago JB and terminals, simply replicating existing wiring
- [2] runs as single cable under the floorboards to another wall where there is another double socket

I do not want to rip open the floorboards are re-wire everything to make "clean" ring, but I also do not want to leave these wires the way they are. What would you recommend? Apart from using proper earth sleeving, new connectors and putting everything in a maintenance free JB.

The way I see it I could:
1. Keep as is and just clean up that wiring and stick everything inside a JB, then I effectively have one double socket on the ring main and a nearby JB, which feeds two other sockets, but not as spur on a spur
2. Connect this socket with [1] ordinary as ring and then continue via [5] up to the single socket in the adjoining room, run a second wire back down continuing the ring, which then goes into a JB. This JB then would feed the single cable under the floorboard to the other socket and also continues the wire back down. Is there any benefit in doing this and slightly cleaning up the ring?

 

[blup]

I would try to extend the ring as it means you can tap into the cables if you want to extend it in future. A jb where the existing socket is plus a new socket above wont look great.

 

[Murdochcat]

Oer. That’s s as rough as a …..

How do you plan to test these changes?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I am in the process of moving a few sockets out of the skirting board. I have done a few of them already, but uncovered a bit of a mess on this one (see picture below). This is on a ring main and there is a single socket exactly on the other side in the adjoining room, which I have moved up 2 weeks ago. I've already noticed these loose terminal blocks last week, but wanted to clean these up only now as I have better access from this side where I have a double socket.

I think your best way forward, is to test out, make of what goes to where, and provide a clear diagram to the forum. Then you can be advised of a safe way forward.

 

[nero44]

Thanks for the responses so far. I will try to put this into a diagram. Seems like there are even some free online wiring diagram tools, I was not aware.

I also just found some moth damage to the carpet in the area, so I might have access to floorboards after all.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Seems like there are even some free online wiring diagram tools, I was not aware.

Just ink, on a scrap of paper, photographed, and posted will do!

 

[nero44]

Well.. the mrs works with adobe illustrator and helped putting this together...

This is basically what I have. "JB" is really just this cable kerfuffle with the push fit connectors. I used a multimeter to confirm that the ring is in fact a ring, indicated by green highlights, but it's also confirmed by an EICR I had done back in December.

Please let me know what you recommend. As mentioned, I am not sure I will be able to open the floorboards, but it is not out of the question as the left socket is really in a bad location and needs moving (not only out of the skirting but also a meter further along the wall). The lower socket on the ring is the picture from my previous post.

:Edit: "Underfloor Boards" should read "Under Floorboards"

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Please let me know what you recommend. As mentioned, I am not sure I will be able to open the floorboards, but it is not out of the question as the left socket is really in a bad location and needs moving (not only out of the skirting but also a meter further along the wall). The lower socket on the ring is the picture from my previous post.

Ideally, you would try to ensure all the sockets were part of the ring, but your priority will be to do away with that 'joint box'. Whichever method is easiest, of...

Let's number the sockets top down 1, 2, and 3(the twin on the ring).

1. Replace that short cable from 3 to either 1, or 2, then make the other socket a spur.

2. Divert the other end of the ring, to connect to either 1, or 2, and as above, make the other socket a spur.

Remember, you are not allowed to connect a spurred socket, to a socket which is already a spur. There are also restrictions on jointing methods which are buried/inaccessible.

 

[nero44]

Ok thanks very much, that makes perfect sense and is very helpful.

 

[SUNRAY]

My interpretation from your OP.
What about the other cable?

Harrys good idea:

Is it a hollow wall?

Hopefully those loose connexions can simply be included into your Wago box.

 

[robinbanks]

Remember, you are not allowed to connect a spurred socket, to a socket which is already a spur

This is the subject of much debate here, but a 4mm spur with multiple sockets, off a 2.5 ring final is generally regarded as acceptable

Multiple spurs originating at the same point and each terminating in one single or one double socket outlet are also the subject of considerable debate and also generally regarded as acceptable. Most sparks take issue with it on grounds that they originate at a socket whose terminals aren't designed for 4x 2.5mm

A common objection to either relates to placement on the ring where the load from the spurs results in poorly balanced sides

In the diagram the OP has provided, the "terminals not rated for that many wires/that current" objection can be easily resolved by using a JB that is

"JB" is really just this cable kerfuffle with the push fit connectors.

Be mindful that you can easily create a situation where they aren't rated for the load on them

 

[securespark]

In the diagram the OP has provided, the "terminals not rated for that many wires/that current" objection can be easily resolved by using a JB that is

...what?

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

This is the subject of much debate here, but a 4mm spur with multiple sockets, off a 2.5 ring final is generally regarded as acceptable

It would be acceptable to me, problem is - we cannot determine from the photos, what those cable sizes are, and OP will likely find 2.5mm somewhat easier to source, than 4mm.

 

[nero44]

It would be acceptable to me, problem is - we cannot determine from the photos, what those cable sizes are, and OP will likely find 2.5mm somewhat easier to source, than 4mm.

That is indeed correct, but the discussion around this is regardless very interesting and contributes to my understanding.

What about the other cable?

good spot. yes... another one of previous owner's beauty. To be fair, they were probably unaware, as it passed EICR and it was probably their builder who also acted as electrician and plumber I suspect. So there is some accent lighting around a closed chimney, which holds 3 x MR11 LED spots running a total of 7.2w, so tiny. I need to check sizing on this cable, but I suspect they just ran a 1.5mm^2 off this "JB" to power that...not ideal, but given the structure of the room (and the room above), I see how it was difficult to use the main lighting circuit to get a cable to the desired location.

Is it a hollow wall?

Hopefully those loose connexions can simply be included into your Wago box.

Yes, this section is lathe&plaster. The idea is to redo everthing with new connectors and wago box, once it's clear how I should run the circuit.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

good spot. yes... another one of previous owner's beauty. To be fair, they were probably unaware, as it passed EICR and it was probably their builder who also acted as electrician and plumber I suspect. So there is some accent lighting around a closed chimney, which holds 3 x MR11 LED spots running a total of 7.2w, so tiny. I need to check sizing on this cable, but I suspect they just ran a 1.5mm^2 off this "JB" to power that...not ideal, but given the structure of the room (and the room above), I see how it was difficult to use the main lighting circuit to get a cable to the desired location.

The way to sort that out, is by adding a switched, fused, spur unit.