solid fuel boiler system

[CatieG]

Hi. I'm trying to cost what the components will come to (broadly) to install an Esse W35, and am hoping some kind forum member can tell me if I'm on the right track so far regarding the hardware I'll need shop around for.

We bought the Esse a couple of years ago http://www.esse.com/support/cookers/installation-instructions/w35_installation_instruction.pdf, but so much else has needed to be done to get the place habitable, I've carried on with the ancient Rayburn Royal till now. The Esse was second hand from a couple who bought it for a granny annex, but the lady's mother sadly died before it was finished, so the cooker was never installed. We bought it with the original packaging intact, stored indoors, at about a third of the retail price, so even though we weren't ready to install it ourselves, it seemed too good a bargain to pass up.

Anyhow, it's now in place and needs connecting up to a hot water system.

The plan is to feed:
-3 groundfloor cast iron rads, with a total output of 16,400 btu.
(1 of these http://www.21stcenturyradiators.com/pd_twoel_rail_edwardian.cfm
& 2 of these http://www.21stcenturyradiators.com...adiators.cfm?gclid=CN-uiev_7LoCFRMftAodpiIA1A )

-a 180 Litre Gledhill Stainless Lite Indirect Open Vented Cylinder. (IND180 OV) http://www.astrumenergysolutions.co...en-vented-cylinders/indirect-open-vented.html[/url] This would be sited in a small lobby about 8 ft (through a wall) from the Esse.

The cold water tank would be one of these - http://www.screwfix.com/p/cold-water-tank-25gal-690-x-515-x-520mm/10500 , 3 ft above the hot water cylinder.

The feed & expansion tank - http://www.screwfix.com/p/cold-water-tank-4gal-480-x-250-x-320mm/10011 will be in the roof space above the hot and cold tanks.

I was also wondering whether we should incorporate a 28mm Magnaclean Pro 2 to the system. I've only seen them discussed in relation to gas fired boilers, but imagine a wood fired system would benefit from one too?

Does this lot sound like it would work as a system, and be suitable for purpose? Have I forgotten anything crucial? We're hoping not to have to use electric pumps anywhere in the system, as having lost the supply for 4 days after the recent storm, we'd like to be as non-dependent on electricity for our heating in future as possible.

Thanks for any advice you can give me,

Catie

 

[DanTheGas]

How do you plan to control this if the cylinder is on the same level as the heat source? You may need to speak with a HETAS engineer as my knowledge is limited when it comes to solid fuel; but I thought the gravity circuit was provided as a method of heat loss in the event of over temperature.

If the cylinder is in the same level; it too will need pumping and as such; if the pump fails, you won't get flow and could damage the appliance.


.....magnacleans....

You will probably only need a 22mm one and fit it it to the inlet side of the pump when piping as a pumped return. It won't grab everything; but it will definitely prolong the life of the system - either that or get someone to flush it that knows what they are doing and keep up to date with water treatment over the life of the system.

 

[Corgigrouch]

As what Dan said but Your feed and expansion tank must be made of a material that won't wilt or deform with heat so the one selected isn't up to the job... A GRP tank is fine but I fit Stainless steel F&E tanks

 

[Norcon]

Have I forgotten anything crucial?

Yes the HI-LO stats and the injector T.

 

[CatieG]

Many thanks everyone. The broadband is being a pig tonight, so this might take a while to put up.

Corgi -

As what Dan said but Your feed and expansion tank must be made of a material that won't wilt or deform with heat so the one selected isn't up to the job... A GRP tank is fine but I fit Stainless steel F&E tanks

Right. So could we re-use the 1960s GRP one then that we just removed with the old immersion tank? It means widening the loft trap, but so would the SS ones I've found. The plastic one would (just) have gone through.

Norcon -

Yes the HI-LO stats and the injector T.

So is one of these 28mm equal tees what I'm after? http://www.injector-tee.co.uk/end feed.html
And is this type of stat suitable for the flow & return pipes? http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Hea...d2732/p50441?gclid=CLGf3ayg77oCFRMctAodwnoAcA

Dan - I don't know about the levels. My OH's brother is HETAS qualified, and the plan is for him to connect the system up the week after Christmas, when he's coming to stay for a few days with his kids (assuming the hardware is affordable on that schedule). He's up to his eyes with work and legal stuff with his ex at present, and doesn't have time to faff around organising this job for us as well, so he's told me to research and source all the components, pipework, fittings etc. Then I'll run it all past him and if he gives the go ahead we'll gun out the floors, build the boxwork and get it all positioned etc, before he comes down. When he looked at our place last time he was here he was under the impression the system would be pumped, but since the storm we were hoping not to go down that road if possible. But it looks as if we might have to? Bum. It didn't occur to us that could be a problem - so thanks. I don't want to keep pestering him, but it looks like I better give him a ring about that.

 

[Corgigrouch]

A 1960s GRP tank is pretty elderly as fibreglass doesn't last for ever.... water leaches along the glass fibres and will cause the material to delaminate.... Stainless F&E tanks are usually cylindrical and quite compact... Don't forget to check that the Bro in law is registered for wet systems so that he can sign it off...... Just 'cos he's a HETAS installer doesn't mean that he's qualified..... Most HETAS guys are only registered for dry stoves......Just worth checking

 

[Norcon]

Some Hetas guys are not that clued up on the wet side.

The stat you linked to is OK but you need two of them.

The injector T you linked to looks like a home made effort.
A manufactured injector T will have a tapered jet which creates a better venturi effect.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Personally, I prefer to linking to a thermal store, mainly because I'm lazy and I don't like to think too hard.... And they are almost foolproof for linking up oil boilers and solar to the solid fuel..

 

[CatieG]

Corgi

Personally, I prefer to linking to a thermal store, mainly because I'm lazy and I don't like to think too hard.... And they are almost foolproof for linking up oil boilers and solar to the solid fuel..

We did think about one, but decided we won't be linking anything else into this system. We might one day build an extension, but that would be onto the far side of the house, and have its own separate heating system (wood fired + solar with a thermal store), and is at least 6-7 yrs off (if ever).

A 1960s GRP tank is pretty elderly as fibreglass doesn't last for ever.... water leaches along the glass fibres and will cause the material to delaminate.... Stainless F&E tanks are usually cylindrical and quite compact... Don't forget to check that the Bro in law is registered for wet systems so that he can sign it off...... Just 'cos he's a HETAS installer doesn't mean that he's qualified..... Most HETAS guys are only registered for dry stoves......Just worth checking

I've never really thought to ask. He installs central heating systems, so I guess that means he's qualified with wet systems? I'll check with OH in the morning. To be fair, Bro in law did say to replace the F&E tank - it is OH who's mumbling that he can't see why we don't reuse the old one . Now I get it - thank you.

The loft hatch is 12 x 14 inch. Is there a reasonably priced make of steel vented tank you know of, that would go through that? (it would save a headache or two if we don't have to form a new hatch). I'm not having any luck finding one online. Or do they still make new GRP ones? I'm sure you're right, and SS is better if possible.

Norcon -

The injector T you linked to looks like a home made effort.
A manufactured injector T will have a tapered jet which creates a better venturi effect.

Thanks. That was the only Endfeed injector tee I could find online. Perhaps I'll try a couple of local plumbers' merchants and see if they can get me one. I have to stipulate I want a manufactured tapered jet one, is that right?

 

[Corgigrouch]

Fit a decent sized loft hatch and stop being a tight wad.... You may be happy to crawl through a tiny hatch like that... But I wouldn't

 

[CatieG]

Fit a decent sized loft hatch and stop being a tight wad....

We have time constraints here, and spending a w/end reforming the hatch is going to make the timescale (though obviously not the hatch ) even tighter

You may be happy to crawl through a tiny hatch like that

Yeah, not really an issue for us sylphlike yoga maniacs - we slither in and out like eels...

...But I wouldn't

LOL. Well, thankfully, you don't have to. If you ever get the urge, I believe diets are available


So, I have found an insulated 20 Litre SS tank that would fit (YAY! ), by a company called Newark, with all the internal gubbins included, for just over £200 inc VAT. http://www.gasapplianceguide.co.uk/Copper and Stainless Header Tanks.htm As you obviously deal with SS tanks, does that seem like reasonable value? What's the advantage of SS over copper, as a matter of interest? Mainly longevity, or other factors as well? They seem similarly priced.

 

[Corgigrouch]

Replacing the hatch only takes a few hours, if you spent more time working and less time wrapping your ankles round your neck and eating lettuce then it would be done quickly.... The benefits of a good sized hatch are many. You can fit a normal sized person and his toolbag through the hatch, which is handy for when you are old and senile.... You won't have to find a plumber who doesn't eat pies to repair your heating for one.

Oddly enough Newark is where I get my F&E tanks.... In more recent times it seems that SS has become cheaper than copper but both are good.. The price does include all the kit to fit and a copper float for the float valve

 

[Norcon]

So, I have found an insulated 20 Litre SS tank that would fit

It won't fit through your loft hatch.
You'll have to put it on a diet or give it some yoga.

 

[aesmith]

We had a solid fuel Rayburn for many years, with gravity circulation to a hot water tank on the same floor. That worked well. From memory the bottom of the tank was around 3 feet above floor level which was as high as it could be fitted below the ceiling.

Tony S