Sonos install. Hints, tips & advice please.

[Alarm Engineer]

Hi,

I'm after some general guidance, hints, tips & recommendations on a sonos install. I have just ordered a Play 1 & plan to start with the one unit and then add to it when i can afford the extra ones.

I'm a security installation engineer by trade so will be more then capable to install cabling for power & Cat6. Is running a hardwired connection worth doing? To free up wifi i'm guessing yes.

My plan is to use the first unit & bracket to mark up the positions of future units. Then install a Cat6 and consealed fused spurs for power to each position.

Ideally the finished install would see two play 1's in lounge behind sofa in line with TV with a Playbar to connect to TV. And another Play 1 in bathroom and possibly two in bedroom.

Installing on Flexson Wall brackets too.

Thanks.

 

[Lucid]

I am a Sonos dealer and installer. The plan to hard-wire is a good one, but if you're putting in the Cat6 just for Sonos then it's overkill: Use Cat5e instead. That might seem a backwards step given that everything is going to faster cable in home installation, however, the network traffic for Sonos isn't anything like as heavy as moving the data bits for video streaming. Cat5e will handle Gigabit speeds up to 100m, so unless the house you're wiring is some sprawling mansion then Cat5e will be more than adequate for audio streaming even of FLAC audio files.

For wireless operation Sonos runs on the 802.11b wireless standard. The benefit of 'b' over g and n is range. The downside is it's more prone to interference from lots of other stuff that inhabits the same frequency spectrum. e.g. wireless video senders, baby monitors, microwave ovens, etc. I've rarely found it to be a problem though because the Sonos speakers and streamers do buffer quite a bit of data so they're pretty tolerant. Situations can change and not every install is the same (quite obviously) so I'd still favour wired over wireless where practical, but the advantage of running wired is as much for the benefit of other devices on your network.

If you're going to the trouble of running cable for the Sonos gear then have a think about running Cat6 for any device that will be making use of video streaming (e.g. TVs, media players, games consoles) and for any storage devices such as NAS drives, PCs and the like. Getting them off the wireless network will free up bandwidth for other dives that don't have a wired option (e.g. tablets, smart phones).


You're planning to put a Playbar in the lounge with a pair of Play 1s for rears. That plus the Flexson brackets will set you back around £1100, and that's before you shell out another £550 for the sub which would make the grand total over £1600. I know what you're thinking: "I won't need the sub just for telly" and you're probably right. The point is that for very similar money (around £1100) you can get a better sounding and far better specified lounge surround system and still have all the benefits of Sonos too. This is one of those rare times when you can have your cake and eat it as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love Sonos. It's the best of any of the wired and wireless whole house audio systems up to the point where you're paying new car money for Linn or Naim. Playbar isn't a bad product either. In fact if all you want is some better sound from the telly that also incorporates the Sonos features and money isn't up there in your top three concerns then a Playbar ticks a lot of boxes. However, if a customer asks me "Is this the best sound I cam buy for my money?" then the answer is 'No'. Once you dip your toe in that pricey pond and do a little digging then you start to uncover some shortcomings. These may or may not bother you, but wouldn't you at least want to know beforehand so you can make the best decision you can rather than finding out after you've splashed the cash?

Playbar's appeal is it's simplicity - you connect it to your TV via an optical cable, and that's pretty much it for any sort of AV connections. The TV acts as the hub for AV switching. This means your Sky/Virgin/BT/Freeview/Freesat recorder plugs in to the TV as do any other devices. As you change HDMI input on the TV the Playbar gets the corresponding sound. Its the same with any Smart TV streaming too; the Playbar lets you hear that as well. So far so good....... Except no-one (until now) makes it clear what the TV does to the sound it passes to the Playbar. Read on....

You're spending £300 on rear surround speakers plus another £50 on Flexson brackets for them, when from a TV recorder (Sky Virgin etc) and Blu-rays and games consoles the best sound you're going to get will be ProLogic. That's the one with the kind of fuzzy indistinct rear surround because a lot of the time it's fudged up from a stereo audio source. That's not the Sonos' fault. It's simply dealing with what it is given. The issue is the TV. The vast majority convert whatever sound format they receive via HDMI in to simple stereo. In the process they throw away all the dedicated surround audio information that's encoded in to films and TV programmes! Things improve slightly with the TV's own tuner - at least with that you get Dolby Digital for the odd HD channel that carries a fully encoded programme, and the version of Dolby Surround for most channels does include some rudimentary rear channel encoding so it'll sound a bit better than plain stereo mocked up in to surround. Its a similar story with streaming: If using the TVs own Smart functions then you'll get Dolby Digital sent to the Playbar.

Playbars have an upper limit to their sound performance. The best they can handle is Dolby Digital from the Optical input. That's a moot point if it is only ever going to be connected to a TV as I have discussed above; but if you're a film fan or console user then you'll miss out on the better quality sound tracks available in DTS, Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master Audio.

So what are the alternatives?..........

The obvious is one of those all-in-one surround systems with a built-in DVD/Blu-ray player such as Currys/PC World sells. Quite honestly, I'd rather stick needles in my eyes before recommending anyone to waste cash on on those, so let's move on to the proper stuff.

A real surround system is made up from an AV receiver which handles all the signal processing and switching and amplification. That's then connected to a set of speakers, and in most cases this is five smaller satellite speakers plus a bass speaker. We call this type of speaker kit a sub-sat system. The advantages of a proper surround system are that it sounds better (and by a substantial margin) than an equivalently-priced all-in-one; it has more inputs and no practical limitations on what can be connected because the system can cope with all the current audio formats.

Here's what I'd recommend as an alternative kit selection

Electronics:
Yamaha RXV479 AV receiver -------------------------------------------------- £269
(or Marantz NR1506 slimline AV receiver (if space is an issue) --------------- £279)

Speakers:
Monitor Audio MASS 5.1 speaker system (1x centre, 4x surround, 1x sub,) - £599

Full Sonos functionality:
Sonos Connect streaming player ---------------------------------------------- £265

Total--------------------------------------------------------------------------- £1133

 

[Lucid]

...and here are a dozen reasons why:

The Yamaha receiver ticks all the boxes for a good 5.1 receiver with the sort of creature comforts that makes it easy for the whole family to use.
(1) If you just want to have sound via the TV speakers (for casual viewing or a quick catch up on the news) then the receiver will allow that. It has 'HDMI Through' which means that the receiver passes the sound of any HDMI source to the TV when the receiver is in standby, but then when you switch it on it mutes the TV sound and redirects audio to the speakers instead. That means there's no faffing around turning the TV down when you want surround which is the case with the Sonos
(2) The remote has 4 preset buttons called Scenes. Once set-up how you like it, these are short-cut buttons so that whoever is using the system can go straight to the TV preset or the Blu-ray preset for example and have everything automatically set correctly. All that's left then is to control the volume and then switch off at the end of viewing
(3) The receiver detects and automatically decodes audio in to the appropriate format based either on the type of signal or how you set the preference. This means you make full use of the surround speakers
(4) The amp includes app control from smart phones and tables running iOS and Android.... but you also have an ordinary remote. This may or may not apply to you, but what happens if a guest or family member want to use the Playbar but they either don't have a smart phone or they're not on your network? Are you going to give them open access to your wireless router password, or are you going to purchase a tablet just to use as a Sonos remote? Having the receiver which is as easy to control as a TV has distinct advatages

The Monitor Audio MASS speakers are outstanding
(5) You'll be hard pushed to find anything on the south side of £1000 that sounds better. These really are "Best in Class" performabnce from a company that excels in making superb speakers
(6) A bit of a personal opinion I know, but I think if they had a B&O badge then they'd sell for three times the price because they look really stylish
(7) Sub-Sat speakers don't usually do that well with music, but Monitor Audio had perfected proper big speaker sound from small boxes with their higher-end Radius series about 10 years ago, so the MASS speaker represent the benefits of trickle-down in that you get £1000+ performance from something that costs substantially less. In short, they rock tunes.
(8) Having individual speakers across the front allows wider spacing for a more convincing front channel effect
(9) Investing decent money in good speakers is a smart long-term plan. If technology changes (and it will) then you might change the receiver (say for 4K or 8K when it comes) but you won't need to change the speakers. In fact, these are good enough that you could partner with an £800-£1000 receiver and still not exceed the performance envelope of the MASS system, they really are that good
(10) You get a sub!! Okay, this needs expanding on a bit, but the sub really does add depth and dimension to the sound that a Playbar on its own lacks. Of course the other benefit is that you get a sub without spending the extra £550 you would do for the Sonos sub


Sonos Connect
(11) Does everything that a Play 1 can do in terms of streaming and connectivity. The obvious difference is that there's no speaker in it, instead it uses the surround system...
(12) ...But it does something extra. A Connect has an audio input as well as an output. This means you can port the sound from your Sky box around the house via the other Sonos speakers. I have customers who use this to listen to TV sports or the news on their speakers in the kitchen or bathroom, and one customer who is big in to vinyl so plays their records through the system too

 

[Alarm Engineer]

Great, thank you for your time & advice, very helpful.

 

[r1flyguy]

I would agree, running a playbar and 2 play1's without a sub is not good, I tried it and the sub made a huge difference.

As for all the other above info...... Excellent info.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

thanks to lucid for the advice re surround systems, made very interesting reading

 

[Doggit]

But having said all that Lucid, how do you rate the Sonos for a simple sound bar upgrade for a TV.

 

[Alarm Engineer]

Think the sound bar is quite expensive. Might just have the sonos for music and buy a different soundbar.

 

[Lucid]

Let's face it, any soundbar is a pretty big step up in sound quality over the tiny speakers built-in to the average wafer thin flatscreen TV. But as soundbars go and rated purely on its sonic abilities the Playbar is pretty good. The inclusion of the Sonos connectivity makes it quite expensive when just judged as a soundbar so this has to be taken in to account when weighing up competing products.

If I was prepared to spend £500-£600 on a soundbar and the Sonos feature wasn't a 'must have' factor then personally I'd look at the Yamaha YSP2500 at around £480-£500 with sub. My short list of features would include a good range on inputs (3 or 4 HDMIs inc HDMI ARC plus optical and/or coax plus analogue) and I'd want something capable of handling DTS and the HD audio formats. These would all be on top of the basic pre-requisite of really good sound as far as soundbars go. The YSP2500 ticks all those boxes.

Stepping down in price the Yamaha YSP1600 or the Q Acoustics Media 4 (both under £300) would be worth a look but they are quite different from each other.

None of the above, even the Yamaha YSPs with their clever 'bouncing rear sound effects off the walls' feature, none of them are a match for a proper 5.1 system though.

 

[motorbiking]

One comment on Cat6 vs Cat5e etc.. I'm currently getting 500mbit fairly consistently using TP-link Powerline AV600 networks, including to a PS4 in a garden room. You can get a couple of starter kits for 30 quid a pop, I've currently got 6 running no problem. I have heard you can have problems if a neighbor is running the same standard, but I've not had any issues with mine.

I think its fine as long as you don't want to stream high density 4K or have data devices running on the same network. I do find though in the home cinema room which gets less use, we occasionally have to switch the network adapter off and on again as it seems to go to sleep.

The other thing to consider as an alternative to network/streaming ready AV kit, is a http://www.mede8er.com I use this connected to a a synology data server and it works very well streaming HD video and audio on older kit via DLNA services. It also means I can control a home cinema with a 15 year old amp, from my iphone.

To me if your going to the trouble of running a wired network - cat7 which has superior shielding and substantial future proofing is the way to go. I can't honestly see the point of installing Cat5e over say gigabit wifi/powerline. Particularly when its likely to be network adapter speed which is the weak link.