Sparkie or...

[Glowsterlad]

I expect to be shot down in flames for not having enough electrical experience to be tackling this o.k. Which is why I stopped what I was doing..and the associated fuse remains pulled .


Earlier in the day I had replaced a standard bulb for a halogen in the upstairs bathroom. I checked the ceiling rose and could see that one of the black wires had a small red sleeve that I knew (from way back) was the switch live. And the job was made easy by simply using the same black wires (including switched live) that linked the rose to the old bulb.
In hindsight I was lucky this set up made the job easier... and having replaced the fuse - on the light came. (however is it safe ? Well, I have not left any bare wires, rerouted any other wires or needed to use any blocks and the earths were previously taken care of though I put more insulating tape on). I was also able to use the existing holes in the ceiling/joist to accomodate the new screws/fitting.

I then moved downstairs to do the same job on the old light in the bathroom. As before.. isolated fuse, removed bulb, unscrewed the piece to reveal the rose and then noted where the 2 black wires left the rose for the bulb.
I did not think to a)make a note which wire went to which part of the rose and b) whether there was a switched live. (and this is now confusing me more because I assumed there would be a black wire with a red sleeve on). I did insulate both earths together because the instructions with the halogen told me that the earth was not needed due to double insulation of the product.

Only when I replaced the bulb for the halogen, connected the 2 black wires as before, replaced fuse and switched on (with no result) - did I realise I was acting pretty naievely... And that is where I stopped and the fuse remains pulled as I said.
Here is the current situation.... (note I have since removed the connector from the bulb wires for now)

Untitled

• Glowsterlad
• 7 May 2012
• 1

What am I missing here or should I just put my hands up and say.. thats as far as I'm going - get a sparkie.
I think I have answered my own question. However I would still welcome a experts opinion on what wire goes to where and why.
A great forum here
Many thanks for your patience
John

 

[JACKC]

Looks to me that the rose was the last of a circuit. The reds would be together as live feeds. One black would have a red sleeve on to indicate switched live and the other black would be the neutral. What test equipment do you have?
Join the 2 reds together in terminal block. These are just the live feed to your switch. Connect your light to the two blacks. One will be the switched live and the other will be the neutral. Refit the fuse and give it a try. Without test equipment it will be 50/50 to get the switched live onto the light brown wire.

 

[Glowsterlad]

Looks to me that the rose was the last of a circuit. The reds would be together as live feeds. One black would have a red sleeve on to indicate switched live and the other black would be the neutral. What test equipment do you have?
Join the 2 reds together in terminal block. These are just the live feed to your switch. Connect your light to the two blacks. One will be the switched live and the other will be the neutral. Refit the fuse and give it a try. Without test equipment it will be 50/50 to get the switched live onto the light brown wire.

Many thanks Jack ! Really appreciate your reply which makes everything much easier to understand now.
Will report back tomorrow !
Cheers
John

 

[Lectrician]

You also need to put a terminal block on the earths too, and should have on your first fitting. Taping them up is not enough, and not required.

That fitting you have is nasty, forcing you to carry out the connections behind the fitting which generally leaves the connections exposed in the ceiling void/loft. Not much you can do, just a really crapply designed fitting.

 

[Glowsterlad]

You also need to put a terminal block on the earths too, and should have on your first fitting. Taping them up is not enough, and not required.

That fitting you have is nasty, forcing you to carry out the connections behind the fitting which generally leaves the connections exposed in the ceiling void/loft. Not much you can do, just a really crapply designed fitting.

Many thanks Lectrician, I had realised later and have a spare terminal block. And yes crapply designed fitting forcing me to go above. Not sure if 'she who must be obeyed' will appreciate the cosmetic damage mind
Cheers !
John

 

[ericmark]

One hopes standard wiring and it's last in the run if so then both reds together and a black to each bulb connection. It would not really matter with double insulated which is line and which is neutral it would still work.

If not to standard of course this could be wrong.

However any electrical connection needs one to use a tool to access and since insulation tape can be removed without a tool it may not comply with regulations and to comply a junction box of some type should be used. But since the ceiling rose can be unscrewed without a tool regulation 416.2.4 lists the following:-

NOTE: This regulation does not apply to:
a ceiling rose complying with BS 67
a cord operated switch complying with BS 3676
a bayonet lampholder complying with BS EN 61184
an Edison screw lampholder complying with BS EN 60238.

Then to pick anyone up on using insulation tape is perhaps being a bit pedantic. However it has been found that the vibrations in buildings can make screws become lose so all connections which can't be accessed should use maintenance free connections be it a spring clip or crimped connector.

Earths are a problem with Class II as it may be required at the switch or next rose and unlike the line and neutral the lamp will work without it. As electricians we have loop impedance meters which allow us to test but most DIY people don't have these so ensuring the earths are soundly connected is rather important and clearly just wrapping together is not good enough.

 

[bernardgreen]

Bad design. I would not fit that on a ceiling. It is a very hot lamp very close to the ceiling. Or rather very close to a hole in the ceiling. If there is shade that fits to it does it have ventilation ?

Also what are the blue and brown leads from the lamp holder insulated with. If it is normal PVC I can see that becoming brittle very quickly if not melting.