speedfit pipe and fittings

[corsawhiteknight]

To all you proffessional plumbers/heating engineers,

I am renovating a property and was considering carrying out the installation of cold/hot water and heating system using JG Speedfit pipe and fittings.

Please can you share your'e thoughts with me, I know there are old school guys out there who will completely dismiss the idea of plastic and suggest copper , but I would like comments/suggestions from open minded people with pros/cons for use of the above.

I wait with eager anticipation for all comments.

regards,

Ian.

 

[Dan Robinson]

So you don't want to hear from those who have reasons for not liking plastic and just want those who use plastic to respond with praise and glory?


Plastic is fine where you can't see it. Well, I say fine - it is a necessary evil.

JG IMHO is cheap crap. Looks awful and I don't trust the fittings.


Personally when it comes to pushfit I only like Tectite classic and either Qual Pex, Polypipe, or Hep for the tube.

Sadly Tectite is not easy to source so I have to stick with Polypipe fittings as the new Hep ones are utter shyte.

 

[corsawhiteknight]

Hi Dan,

I think you may have misinterpreted my comments, I wanted views of a constructive nature that would assist me in making the right choice between copper and plastic.

If you don't like plastic pipe, then that's a personal preference and I would be interested to hear your reasons from a technical point of view why it's a neccessary evil.

As I said before, I don't expect everybody to like plastic, but that's not a criticism towards anybody in the Industry. I'm a spark and I'm not to fond of plastic conduit, I prefer steel, but like you I find it a neccessary evil, cost over performance.

Regards,

Ian.

 

[Dan Robinson]

You seem to be answering your own questions.

I don't like because it is bulky, the fittings expensive and looks crap.

However, when people bleat on about pricing and being hard up, sometimes speed has its benefits.

I thing Speedfit is only good for temporary connections. The plumber's equivalent of Scotch Locks.

 

[SandyLyon]

the new Hep ones are utter shyte.

Dan, I would love to hear your thoughts on your above statement, technically I think they are the best by far of the current plastic Pushfit fittings.

 

[Dan Robinson]

They look awful and are a pain to remove.

The new inserts are equally stupid.

But then, that is jut my opinion.

 

[SandyLyon]

They look awful and are a pain to remove.

The new inserts are equally stupid.

But then, that is jut my opinion.

If we all liked the same it would be a "funny old world"

A. They look awful - I think they look neater than JG or Polyplumb

B. Are a pain to remove - they are demountable with the tool, which to me is a good idea. Tenants are less likely to tamper with them and little inquisitive fingers can't release them. Also you shouldn't need to keep Demounting them.

C. The new inserts are equally as stupid. - they are stainless steel so they don't reduce the bore as much as plastic, they have the raised bits on that enable you to tell when the pipe is fully inserted into the fitting

Looks as though we will beg to differ on this one.

Sandy

 

[longdogs]

I have never had a problem with JG speedfit and think it has it's uses. Personally, I would only use where they are not on show ie: in a loft. I have never had one leak. I would not want to plumb a heating system in plastic as I don't like the way the pipe appears from the wall or floor but for pumped or combi fed showers I can't see a problem. JG fittings work well with copper pipe (don't need inserts).

Obviously copper looks and is, more professional.

 

[newbuildinstaller]

PLASTIC!!

Expert site basher here, done 100's of houses from scratch with every pushfit pipe available.

Hep2o
Old stuff was great, new is a fanny to remove BUT stupid expensive

Speedfit
Cheapest (I find) love the pipe much more rigid (except the 10mm coils are leathal with its spring back) The inserts are great with the extra seals.

Polyplumb
Very similar to Hep2o but cheaper. Also find you can get a lot more phantom leaks of pressure test stage (where there is no visable reason for a drip yet the fitting drips)

Tectite
To expensive hard to source may as well use copper

I would say speedfit everytime for ease/speed/price but use lay flat 10mm (its softer less spring back)

ALSO NEVER EVER EVER buy coils of 15mm/22mm of any brand it will never go straight and pulls at the fittings!

Pressure test every first fix before covering over, NEVER EVER use air to test always water (just think air rifle if you want to know why....) Hire a hydrolic tester and test to 1.5 x the working pressure so generaly 7bar we usually do it to 10bar though.

Like I said I use this stuff every day so am the resident site bashing expert

 

[newbuildinstaller]

I have never had a problem with JG speedfit and think it has it's uses. Personally, I would only use where they are not on show ie: in a loft. I have never had one leak. I would not want to plumb a heating system in plastic as I don't like the way the pipe appears from the wall or floor but for pumped or combi fed showers I can't see a problem. JG fittings work well with copper pipe (don't need inserts).

Obviously copper looks and is, more professional.

10mm looped down behind the rads from back baxes or proper outlets to PPV rad valves, pipework is invisible and rad sizes and postion (to an extent) can be altered easily

 

[corsawhiteknight]

PLASTIC!!

Expert site basher here, done 100's of houses from scratch with every pushfit pipe available.

Hep2o
Old stuff was great, new is a **** to remove BUT stupid expensive

Speedfit
Cheapest (I find) love the pipe much more rigid (except the 10mm coils are leathal with its spring back) The inserts are great with the extra seals.

Polyplumb
Very similar to Hep2o but cheaper. Also find you can get a lot more phantom leaks of pressure test stage (where there is no visable reason for a drip yet the fitting drips)

Tectite
To expensive hard to source may as well use copper

I would say speedfit everytime for ease/speed/price but use lay flat 10mm (its softer less spring back)

ALSO NEVER EVER EVER buy coils of 15mm/22mm of any brand it will never go straight and pulls at the fittings!

Pressure test every first fix before covering over, NEVER EVER use air to test always water (just think air rifle if you want to know why....) Hire a hydrolic tester and test to 1.5 x the working pressure so generaly 7bar we usually do it to 10bar though.

Like I said I use this stuff every day so am the resident site bashing expert

newgasinstaller,

Thanks for your comments, I have used tectite classic push fittings in the past, but as you say, difficult to source and expensive.

I will certainly use plastic for the hot & cold, not sure about the heating system now, I was going to use plastic were it's out of sight then bring copper tails upto the rads etc.

Thanks again, Ian

 

[AlexCarp]

Speedfit
Cheapest (I find) love the pipe much more rigid (except the 10mm coils are leathal with its spring back) The inserts are great with the extra seals.

I have found Polyplumb to be the cheapest. But just my experience. Coiled 22mm Speedfit pipe is awful and difficult to use. Speedfit fitting are too bulky.

Polyplumb
Very similar to Hep2o but cheaper. Also find you can get a lot more phantom leaks of pressure test stage (where there is no visable reason for a drip yet the fitting drips)

I have never found that. But noted.

ALSO NEVER EVER EVER buy coils of 15mm/22mm of any brand it will never go straight and pulls at the fittings!

Coils are good for threading pipe, but straight lengths are nice, but more expensive.

Pressure test every first fix before covering over, NEVER EVER use air to test always water (just think air rifle if you want to know why....) Hire a hydrolic tester and test to 1.5 x the working pressure so generaly 7bar we usually do it to 10bar though.

I tested using mains pressure water overnight which is usually x3 what a heating system will run at, but the same as the hot and cold water system.

 

[SandyLyon]

PLASTIC!!

Expert site basher here, done 100's of houses from scratch with every pushfit pipe available.

Hep2o
Old stuff was great, new is a **** to remove BUT stupid expensive

Speedfit
Cheapest (I find) love the pipe much more rigid (except the 10mm coils are leathal with its spring back) The inserts are great with the extra seals.

Polyplumb
Very similar to Hep2o but cheaper. Also find you can get a lot more phantom leaks of pressure test stage (where there is no visable reason for a drip yet the fitting drips)

Tectite
To expensive hard to source may as well use copper

I would say speedfit everytime for ease/speed/price but use lay flat 10mm (its softer less spring back)

ALSO NEVER EVER EVER buy coils of 15mm/22mm of any brand it will never go straight and pulls at the fittings!

Pressure test every first fix before covering over, NEVER EVER use air to test always water (just think air rifle if you want to know why....) Hire a hydrolic tester and test to 1.5 x the working pressure so generaly 7bar we usually do it to 10bar though.

Like I said I use this stuff every day so am the resident site bashing expert

Hep2o - For me still the best, PB pipe, 50 year warranty, the fact that you need a tool to demount it is a positive as people are less likely to tamper with it. Price can be slightly higher but with support from the merchant there should be little in it.

Speedfit - You say it's the cheapest, but cheapest isn't always the best. As for the PEX pipe it's almost impossible to use from the coil, therefore you end up using straight lengths and more fittings making the "Cheaper" system more expensive.

Polyplumb - Is the old technology ("O" ring first Grab Ring Second) you are more likely to get an installer error because the pipe has not been fully inserted) Fittings can't be re-used without replacing the grab ring.

Tectite - Agree

Hep2o every time for me

Never put plastic on show so always use coils 10mm, 15mm, 22mm and even 28mm PB. By using coils you cut down on the number of fittings which means the installed cost is lower and less joints mean less chances of a problem.

Pressure testing - Use a Rothenberger RP50 or the like, test with water.
New style fittings (Grab First "O" Ring Second) are generally 1.5 times working pressure, however if you use any of the old style fittings (Polyplumb) you should test up to 18 bar.

 

[roguetrader]

We won't use pushfit on any of our jobs, we've had several fitting blow apart mainly hep, some polyfit pipe blistered and split and more than enough rodent damage.

We use thousands of meters of pipe a year and have made the decision not to use pushfit to try and steer clear of potential problems.
Fair enough it has its uses, but I feel uncomfortable using it after so many problems.

 

[stardanny]

I only use copper. Never touch plastic.

Went to a job where one of speedfit supplying to electric blow apart by ice in freezing weather, causing thousand pounds of damage. Elbow and tee is too large for lagging to fit.

Some plastic last up to 50 years. May go brittle, remember durapipe....

Copper, more than 100 years.

Daniel.