Stew said """One last thing, softus and tony, your positions and advice really arent as far apart as your personalities, take a chill pill and ask your selves, do these comments help. Especially imagine you are talking to an intellegent non professional audience, it will get you more work, more trust from clients and more respect in general."""
I try to give correct and useful advice on the original topic and any subsequent associated questions which may arise. This may sometimes appear harsh where poor quality work has been done.
Plastic is the material of choice for most builders and many DIYers. However virtually all professional plumbers prefer copper except for specific applications where the flexibility of plastic is advantageous.
Unfortunately Softus often tries to post totally irrelevant questions like "how many cats have I seen chasing dogs?" He hides his identity and cannot explain why! I give good advice in my own name!
I have quite a lot of work, total trust from clients and considerable respect ( except from Softus )
Tony
I try to give correct and useful advice on the original topic and any subsequent associated questions which may arise. This may sometimes appear harsh where poor quality work has been done.
Plastic is the material of choice for most builders and many DIYers. However virtually all professional plumbers prefer copper except for specific applications where the flexibility of plastic is advantageous.
Unfortunately Softus often tries to post totally irrelevant questions like "how many cats have I seen chasing dogs?" He hides his identity and cannot explain why! I give good advice in my own name!
I have quite a lot of work, total trust from clients and considerable respect ( except from Softus )
Tony
Once again, where are the facts to back up your theory? Glaringly absent, as always.Agile said:
It's hard to make sense out of a number such as "virtually all", so why on earth would any engineer use such a term?
Regarding your stated exception, this has been my point all along - there is not one single fitting or material that suits all circumstances. You claim that your preference for copper, but not for any sound technical reason that you can name. And now it turns out that as things get tricky with copper you turn to plastic.
BTW, the copper vs. plastic argument is separate to that for pushfit vs. not pushfit, but you persistently muddy the waters by lumping the debates into one.
If you claim that you prefer copper because it lasts longer, then it's reasonable to ask you the relative number of plastic pipe failures that you've seen personally. And if you claim that plastic fails at 1 bar, then it's reasonable to ask how many failures you've seen at that pressure.
The fact that you haven't offered a single answer to any of the perfectly reasonable questions is all the testimony that anyone needs that your so-called advice on this particular topic is hot air and bluster.
I give you respect where and when you deserve it. For example, few forum members have your breadth and depth of knowledge and experience with gas boilers, and your knack of identifying the source of a fault speedily. Fair play - complete respect for that.
However, it's hard to respect your attitude to people who don't behave exactly the way you think they should, and your intolerance of people who are socially less fortunate. As someone who purports to uphold a professional image of the trade and "proper" conduct, you frequently post with inappropriate snobbery.
It's your choice to publicise your own name, and my choice that I don't. I respect your choice and have never criticised you for using your name. You, on the other hand, have tried all kinds of conniving underhand ways to 'out' me - you might regard as mischevious, but it's just childish. As far as I'm concerned, I don't need or ask for respect from anyone, but if you want respect then I suggest that you start showing some.
Softus said: """However, it's hard to respect your attitude to people who don't behave exactly the way you think they should, and your intolerance of people who are socially less fortunate."""
A case that reminds me of is this fellow in a £2.8M house in Wetstone who said "he could not afford a new boiler at £1900".
But in the next sentence he told me he was going to replace his 4.2 litre 2 y.o. Jaguar with a nice new top of the range Discovery ( about £27k ? )
Tony
A case that reminds me of is this fellow in a £2.8M house in Wetstone who said "he could not afford a new boiler at £1900".
But in the next sentence he told me he was going to replace his 4.2 litre 2 y.o. Jaguar with a nice new top of the range Discovery ( about £27k ? )
Tony
No (sigh), this is an example of someone who's more fortunate. 
I was referring to posts like the following:
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=408650#408650
I was referring to posts like the following:
http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=408650#408650
Other than Unipipe press fit, I will not use plastic pipe.
I think it looks sh it, it fails for a pastime (yes I have the pics) and the vermin love it like cheese. Especially Hep2°, shucks they even warn you on the packet now.
I think it looks sh it, it fails for a pastime (yes I have the pics) and the vermin love it like cheese. Especially Hep2°, shucks they even warn you on the packet now.
It reveals a lot about people's prejudices when they reject plastic pipe on aesthetic grounds before giving any technical justification.
If you like the look of copper, then fit it and be happy about it, but having a subjective preference is no reason to criticise something that never leaks if you check every fitting and install according to the MIs. Naturally there are problems if you're not competent, but it's best to steer clear of things that you find too challenging.
If you like the look of copper, then fit it and be happy about it, but having a subjective preference is no reason to criticise something that never leaks if you check every fitting and install according to the MIs. Naturally there are problems if you're not competent, but it's best to steer clear of things that you find too challenging.
Softus said:
Did I criticise plastic pipe and fittings
I said I personally think it looks sh it when compared to copper or steel.And trust me it leaks, I have seen tube with groves that haven't held under test, I have seen fittings come apart, I have seen pipes have thats burst, I have seen pipes that have been Gnawed through by rats and nice.
Other than that its bloody horrible stuff to work with, and give you no work satisfaction, and it sure as hell does'nt test your skills.
You want to fit the stuff carry on, and don't give me any bull about being stuck in the past, because if I am them I'm proud of it and the quality I produce. And more importantly so are the clients.
doitall said:
Yes.doitall said:Did I criticise plastic pipe and fittings
Um, actually, no you didn't (see above).
Trust me - it doesn't leak. I've used many hundreds of metres of Hep2o and hundreds of Hep2o fittings, and I've never had a leak.
Then follow the MIs and stop using tube with grooves.
I check the fittings before installing them - that's how to avoid problems.
So, you returned the faulty pipe to Hepworth? And what did they say - manufacturing fault, or installation fault?
Or did you not return the pipe? Surely you can't just be slagging it off without knowing the cause of the failure?
Then why did someone install it where rodent attack was a risk?
Well it seems to have tested yours beyond their limit. Even if you're right, which you're not, then it's high time you stopped regarding jobs as a personal skill test and instead regard them as delivery of a service that a customer is happy to pay for, and an installation that needs as little maintenance as possible.
Oh believe me, I'll be carrying on doing what I do, without the slightest need for approval from someone who doesn't know how to fit it.
You're stuck in the past.
In that case you don't have a problem. Nor can you serve as many clients as if you sometimes used plastic for a quicker job.
DIA has been on the game for 46 years, so he tells us, and I believe it !
His firm's clients pay £90 plus vat for his services. Its not surprising that they expect a good job for that price and that they will be paying for the best materials. One of his jobs ( Bassett Road W11 ) which I inspected had five bathrooms for only two people.
One of my clients told her tenant today ( in Spanish so that her husband no comprende ) that I had nice legs ! Another client's testimony to my workmanship !
Tony
His firm's clients pay £90 plus vat for his services. Its not surprising that they expect a good job for that price and that they will be paying for the best materials. One of his jobs ( Bassett Road W11 ) which I inspected had five bathrooms for only two people.
One of my clients told her tenant today ( in Spanish so that her husband no comprende ) that I had nice legs ! Another client's testimony to my workmanship !
Tony
Are you saying that he's a public prostitute instead of a plumber?Agile said:
Either way, he's not only stuck in the past; he's stuck in the distant past.
Per what? Day? Hour? Minute? Metre of copper? Flux stain? Pinhole leak?
Whatever it is I hope they never ask him to explain how mains water can force hot water through a copper cylinder and up into the CSS.[/quote]
Indeed so - unless of course the best materials in the cirstumstances were plastic and/or pushfit, in which case they simply paid for copper and solder for aesthetic reasons.
Did somebody miscount?
Thats £90 + vat per HOUR for DIA.
Miscounting the number of bathrooms? I thought it was five but it might have been six?
An interesting feature was two pairs of double "his and hers" basins hewn from solid marble. I have only seen those before in Jewish houses in Hendon.
I have a couple of nice photos of plastic installations sent to me today. I can email if anybody wants to post them here to demonstrate why I dont like plastic.
As I spent the day at the Brick Lane festival I would like a restful sit in front of the TV. Annoyed by a Policeman threatening a woman totally unecessarily there and had considerable delays getting a meal when we had eventually secured a table on the pavement although as it is their busiest day of the year I suppose I should not expect perfection.
Tony
Tony
Miscounting the number of bathrooms? I thought it was five but it might have been six?
An interesting feature was two pairs of double "his and hers" basins hewn from solid marble. I have only seen those before in Jewish houses in Hendon.
I have a couple of nice photos of plastic installations sent to me today. I can email if anybody wants to post them here to demonstrate why I dont like plastic.
As I spent the day at the Brick Lane festival I would like a restful sit in front of the TV. Annoyed by a Policeman threatening a woman totally unecessarily there and had considerable delays getting a meal when we had eventually secured a table on the pavement although as it is their busiest day of the year I suppose I should not expect perfection.
Tony
Tony
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