Squeaky moving joists.

[Penelopejean]

We are having an ensuite built over an existing room but are having a floating floor in it seperate from the existing ceiling in our sitting room below. The old exterior wall is breeze block not brick(as it was tile hung). There is no opportunity to put a wall plate bearer thingy on the block wall. The builder has used timber joist hangers and screwed them into the breeze block. The joists are moving when you walk on the WPB above and causing a horrible squeak over one particular joist where the shower tray will go. We want to tile the ensuite floor so don't want any movement of the floor or tray or tiles. The builder has now taken up the ply( and was not happy as it's glued down!) to find the squeak but how can he make the floor more rigid? He has put in a row of noggins where there is a join in the WPB but are more needed and what else can he do?
The builder has now suggested that he puts the grotty split WPB down back after all this! Half of it is still stuck to the surface of the joists! Am I being a perfectionist or what?!
And I would prefer not to have any silly answers please as I am seriously at my wits end.
Thankyou
Penny

 

[joe-90]

What depth are the joists?

 

[Penelopejean]

The new ones are 195x50.

 

[pinenot]

I'm having difficulty understanding how you can have a floating floor above an existing room, however I'm realistic enough to know this possibly my fault. That having been said, your problem needs some form of resolution.
I'm assuming the (floating floor) is actually a raised floor, required to provide space for the shower drainage run? and that the" wbp" is external grade plywood used as flooring??

My understanding of the squeaking floor, as described, is more strait forward.
Breeze blocks, made predominantly from fly ash,were not designed to take compression i.e. load bearing directly. However if the load is spread the blocks can perform very well. Quite simply what appears to have happened here one or more of the blocks at the joist hanger positions, have worn their respective fixings in the breeze blocks, loose. Tying the joists together with noggins will help, they will have to be full depth of the joists and the ceiling below should be jacked up with Acro props (before installing) If any dip exists within the ceiling below at these loose joist areas, make sure the props are screwed up sufficient to take them out, use scaffold battens both under and above the props too spread the load.
Get access to the affected joist hanger fixings and replace these with chemi anchor fixings, these two actions (noggins and chemi anchor fixing) will help resolve the loose/squeaky joists before any other works are attempted.

It doesn't sound like perfectionism to me more pragmatism, if the builder doesn't agree, maybe it's time to replace him!

Good luck, keep us posted...pinenot

 

[Penelopejean]

Now he's gone off in a huff I've been able to have a closer look at the joists with the ply up. The joists aren't all the same level. There is one joist where the tray would sit that is higher by about 3mm and twisted slightly so consequently I suspect the ply was rocking on it and making the noise. When they put the new joists in the hangers they also added timber 3x2s to the 2x2 wall bearer that the ground floor ceiling was attached to thereby transmitting any movement in the new joists down to the ceiling below. My husband had the suspicion that the joists were resting on these rather than the hangers so asked for them to be removed as it was a floating floor. Unfortunately the plasterboard had "popped" downstairs and you could feel the movement when someone put pressure on the floor upstairs.
Any ideas how to rectify would be gratefully received
Penny

However did we ever manage to build St Pauls, York Minster and the like eh?!......... They must have been craftsmen I suspect.

 

[Penelopejean]

Thanks very much Pinenot. We seem to have posted at exactly the same time.
It is very complicated and I can appreciate your non-comprehension of the floating floor and I think that was the chippies problem too. The surveyors drawings weren't that clear I have to say explaining that the 2 levels of joists were independent of each other. We just thought that a skilled builder would understand it better than us! Anyway, no it's not to house the drains, it's to bring the upper floor, up level with the existing floor in the bedroom which is next to the ensuite, and of course to strengthen it with bigger joists. The top of the lower ceiling joists were quite a bit lower, 150mm say.
Anyway the big boss builder is visiting us this afternoon to say sorry we hope and to come up with a solution we hope too.
Thanks again pinenot and to anyone who might want to have an input and don't forget nothing rude please!
Penny

 

[Nige F]

Now he's gone off in a huff I've been able to have a closer look at the joists with the ply up. Any ideas how to rectify would be gratefully received
Penny

They must have been craftsmen I suspect.

And they didn`t come from Surrey - I`ve never seen so many p*ssed off posters from Surrey , on this forum I feel for you guys - you should hire some Good Old Sussex boys

 

[joe-90]

Surrey is where the rich kids live. Plenty of moolah in Surrey.

 

[dann09]

So, your floating floor is not, for instance, a laminate floor, but parallel joist fixings, as in a loft conversion?
But, unfortunately, the deeper section joists are now touching the p/b ceiling below?
Why dont you, perhaps,post some pics?
And research a recent post that will give you options on firmly fixing levelled joists in the position that you want them in.

 

[Penelopejean]

Yes NigeF it's difficult to find a decent honest builder around here. They all seem to want your money and get away with the bare minimum. They say you can get a hitman easier than a plumber around here even in a recession
Yes also to Dan 09 it is parallel fixings. I put a sprit level over the joists and there's one about 3-4mm proud and resting on the ceiling that's causing the problem. Just simple bad workmanship for not checking that it's completely flat. The bossman is getting in another chippie in to level it all. We will ask for deeper noggins all over where we can too.

Thanks very much to one and all veen the sussex boys for their interest

 

[Deluks]

Surrey is where the rich kids live. Plenty of moolah in Surrey.

Croydon is in Surrey, not much moolah here! There's always some bugger who will do it cheaper.

 

[Nige F]

[

Croydon is in Surrey, not much moolah here! There's always some b*****r who will do it cheaper.

That`s cuz we can get to it - up the A22