Standpipe Height

[Khyber]

Hello there,

I'm an experienced DIY'er but new to this forum, so firstly, hi.

I have a quick query on plumbing which I hope someon can help with.

I have run my waste pipework for the washing machine & dishwasher as the pic below:

I was wondering if the upstand on the smaller waste pipe was too short? As you can see the outlet is quite high so I haven't got a great deal of tolerance.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Matt.

 

[Nige F]

change those traps for hep V O waste valves.....costs more but they`ll work for ever and won`t let any smells back

 

[sime10]

Can I see an undersized gas supply to the boiler ?

 

[Khyber]

Good advice, I'll look into it.

What about my concern regarding the drop in height of the standpipes? Is that distance too short? Referencing the handbook I see that it only refers to the 75mm trap as a specification & not to the height of the standpipe. Yet every w/m kit seems to come with a length of pipe approximately 600mm.

 

[Khyber]

Can I see an undersized gas supply to the boiler ?

15mm is all that's all that is in the property i'm afraid, plus the connection on the boiler is only a 15mm copper tail which is supplied with the boiler.

It's a Vaillant Ecotec 831 and as far as I can see it doesn't spec a 22mm feed in the manual. It would seem daft to go from 15 to 22, then back to 15 again though wouldn't it?

 

[sime10]

It does look a bit low And I notice you are going to take something else into it Sink maybe?
If you use a waste valve like Nige F has said with a washing machine connection on you will be fine but if the sink? and washing machine are used at the same time you may get problems.
Thats assuming you are connecting another waste pipe to it.


Sime10

 

[Khyber]

It does look a bit low And I notice you are going to take something else into it Sink maybe?
If you use a waste valve like Nige F has said with a washing machine connection on you will be fine but if the sink? and washing machine are used at the same time you may get problems.
Thats assuming you are connecting another waste pipe to it.


Sime10

Yes, I will also have the sink flowing into the arrangement on the left hand side where the t piece is. I will need to be careful that only 1 appliance is in use at a time however, i'm sort of stuck as the stack is fixed at the height you can see.

Is there any way that you can see how to have a different setup though?

 

[sime10]

For the waste system You could if the sink is close enough get a combined washing machine/ sink trap and run the waste to that.

As for the gas supply it still seems to be undersized. Usually the last metre can be run in 15mm, should be 22 off the meter.

 

[doitall]

Can I see an undersized gas supply to the boiler ?

15mm is all that's all that is in the property i'm afraid, plus the connection on the boiler is only a 15mm copper tail which is supplied with the boiler.

It's a Vaillant Ecotec 831 and as far as I can see it doesn't spec a 22mm feed in the manual. It would seem daft to go from 15 to 22, then back to 15 again though wouldn't it?

Why worry about the waste pipe anyway, connect the boiler up in 15mm and the kitchen will probably end up in the garden.

May I suggest a member of the kennel club before you get into any more trouble.

Have to go back to the meter and install a bigger pipe, the same as we would have too.

 

[Khyber]

Why worry about the waste pipe anyway, connect the boiler up in 15mm and the kitchen will probably end up in the garden.

May I suggest a member of the kennel club before you get into any more trouble.

Have to go back to the meter and install a bigger pipe, the same as we would have too.

What is the point of running a 22mm pipe when it reduces to 15mm at the boiler? All you'd do is extend the point at which it remains in large bore only to reduce at a later stage in the pipe run.

If you refer to the manual:

http://www.vaillant.co.uk/stepone2/data/downloads/d7/42/00/ecoTEC_installation_and_servicing.pdf

You'll see it specifies a 15mm gas inet on page 6 of the installation instructions.

 

[stem]

Wiring looks a bit suspect too. I suggest that you check it out on the electrical forum.

As far as I can tell from the photo, it appears that you are installing a twin socket behind the appliances. This will be inaccessible once the appliances are installed. Arrangements need to be made to have a separate isolator readily accessible elsewhere. As there appear to be 2 cables in your back box this suggests to me that it will be wired as a normal socket on a ring circuit and will not have the necessary isolation.

I only mention it as it will be far easier to rectify now rather than later after you've tiled, as your LABC will probably make you change it after they have inspected it under Part P (I'm assuming you are DIYing the wiring and that it is a kitchen) the experts on the wiring forum will be able to advise you more.

 

[Khyber]

Wiring looks a bit suspect too. I suggest that you check it out on the electrical forum.

As far as I can tell from the photo, it appears that you are installing a twin socket behind the appliances. This will be inaccessible once the appliances are installed. Arrangements need to be made to have a separate isolator readily accessible elsewhere. As there appear to be 2 cables in your back box this suggests to me that it will be wired as a normal socket on a ring circuit and will not have the necessary isolation.
quote]

Yes, that's why there's a switched fuse plate above the worktop as you can see in the first pic, the appliance outlet spurs from that & can therefore be isolated above countertop.

 

[Gasguru]

What is the point of running a 22mm pipe when it reduces to 15mm at the boiler? All you'd do is extend the point at which it remains in large bore only to reduce at a later stage in the pipe run.

If you refer to the manual:

http://www.vaillant.co.uk/stepone2/data/downloads/d7/42/00/ecoTEC_installation_and_servicing.pdf

You'll see it specifies a 15mm gas inet on page 6 of the installation instructions.

And if you carry on and read page 10 especially the bit about BS 6891 it will enable you to calculate the correct pipe size. You may even require a 28mm pipe from the meter - it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the boiler connection pipe size.

 

[ChrisR]

Must say it all looks horribly DIY.
The dogleg compression fitings on the waste will sag and leak in time as they aren't supported - or easily supportable. Use Solvent weld.
90º degree elbows in a horizontal waste pipe run are asking for blockages. Use 135º ones.
All that stuff to handle the condensate (including rodding eye on top?? ) is unnecessary. One (the correct) fitting would have done.
Presumably the wackily bent copper pipes coming from the boiler are like that due to a misconcepion about elbows there.
The gas supply to the boiler makes it an Illegal, and Immediately Dangerous installation. The boiler couldn't work at all properly.
Installation instructions are intended for Competent persons to use.

£50 to a plumber to put you straight before you started would have saved you making such a mess on the plumbing side, and a "shed" guide on electrics would have told you about that.

 

[Khyber]

Must say it all looks horribly DIY.
The dogleg compression fitings on the waste will sag and leak in time as they aren't supported - or easily supportable. Use Solvent weld.
90º degree elbows in a horizontal waste pipe run are asking for blockages. Use 135º ones.
All that stuff to handle the condensate (including rodding eye on top?? ) is unnecessary. One (the correct) fitting would have done.
Presumably the wackily bent copper pipes coming from the boiler are like that due to a misconcepion about elbows there.
The gas supply to the boiler makes it an Illegal, and Immediately Dangerous installation. The boiler couldn't work at all properly.
Installation instructions are intended for Competent persons to use.

£50 to a plumber to put you straight before you started would have saved you making such a mess on the plumbing side, and a "shed" guide on electrics would have told you about that.

Well thankyou so much for your very constructive and not at all patronising critsicm.

Yes, support will be added on the horizontal section when the base unit goes in, I'm leaving the corner as a void to allow access in the future. The "rodding" end as you put it is the upstand for the dishwasher & was the initial concern of mine now overlooked & surpassed by a potential query over the gas pipe supply.

Misconception about elbows, oh right so your saying it's better to cut and put in a soldered joint than bend the pipe, of course how incredibly silly of me, why bend the pipe when I can cut, wire wool, flux & solder, much better obviously!

wtf are you chatting about regarding the electrics now, shed guide??? Seriously check out the picture, it clearly shows a spur Twin & Earth coming in a vertical line down from a single backbox which will house a 13A switched fuse, what is wrong with that?

I'm guessing whatever I post there'll be someone on here to criticise, If I have made an oversight on the existing gas supply pipe which was being used to supply the previous boiler then it has now been brought to light, Ta for that, I'll investigate what diameter the cast iron supply in the wall is, if it's large enough not to restrict the flow & i've run 15mm from that then there is nothing wrong with the installation. If the iron pipe is too small then I'll run a new larger feed from the meter through the loft & down reducing it to 15mm close to the boiler.

The metre or so of 15mm i've installed from the wall supply falls within the pressure drop allowed according to this resource:

http://www.cda.org.uk/megab2/build/pub124/sec3.htm

However please feel free to add any further thoughts...

Good idea btw with the 135º bends, that would make more sense, I'll use that.

Incidentally the local plumbing shop actually suggested I do the waste pipe as in the photo, it wasn't my layout, hence why i'm querying it's design, it seems not every plumber you speak to before doing something knows what they are on about.