Stopping the mains supply to a council block.

[Katie_Jennings]

A friend of mine has a leak coming from the main stopcock of her groundfloor (leasehold) flat in a local authority block. A plumber she called with a view to fixing it told her to contact her property management people to get somebody to turn off the outside valve. They have responded by saying that it is not their responsibility as the valve is in the outside pathway and therefore falls to Thames Water to deal with. A neighbour reckons that access to any valves to the block was filled in long while back.

Surely there must be some way of turning the mains supply off to whole block if not her own individual flat? Is anyone able to shed any light on what she can do to get this matter resolved? Thanks.

 

[zanwan]

there would almost certainly be a way to turn of the water. Have you contacted Sever Trent? If its beyond the boundaries of the property then its the water authority who would turn it off. They may charge you though.

 

[compheat]

If the stop tap is leaking then is most probably from the spindle in which case you dont need to turn off in street to repair.

 

[Nige F]

Thames Water- Severn Trent - How about Southern Water ...IT IS the water undertaker`s responsibility...Whoever they are. Ex council Block surely the Local Authority still manages it . Don`t you just love the Right to Buy

 

[Katie_Jennings]

IronNaz: It’s Thames Water and certainly beyond the boundaries of the property.

compheat: I have seen the stopcock and the top part is covered in some type of grease so I guess somebody has had a go at it previously. I suppose it need replacing entirely.

Nige f: The property management company is appointed by the local authority. Agree though, with your misgivings about the RtB.

Is a plumber able to cut the pipe while still connected to the mains or is this illegal? Another friend suggested that plumbers sometimes do this and that there is a special connector that allows the stopcock to be instantly fitted on to the pipe.

 

[tamz]

Phone another decent plumber who will come out, turn the water off in the street and repair the valve. If it is a small drip coming from the spindle it just needs a wee tighten without turning anything off.

Btw if you expect a night or weekend callout you will pay premium rates. Wait until monday if it is not bad.

 

[tamz]

Is a plumber able to cut the pipe while still connected to the mains or is this illegal?

Not illegal but a wetsuit of pair of trunks would be handy

You can freeze it and change the valve. Won't need the wetsuit then

 

[Katie_Jennings]

Phone another decent plumber who will come out, turn the water off in the street and repair the valve. If it is a small drip coming from the spindle it just needs a wee tighten without turning anything off.

As said earlier nobody seems to be able to locate the external valve. As said, it looks as if some attempt has been made to repair it previously hecn the grease so it is likely to be beyond repair.

Btw if you expect a night or weekend callout you will pay premium rates. Wait until monday if it is not bad.

As it is a ground floor flat it is not a dire emergency but we would like to get it sorted sooner rather than later.

You can freeze it and change the valve. Won't need the wetsuit then

I think the plumber told her that because it is leaking that it was not possible to freeze. Is this not so?

Thanks, tamz.

 

[Paul Barker]

Correct that because water is flowing due to leak it won't freeze.

Is the stop tap soldered in place?

The pipe upstream (towards the source) is it lead?

Is there a small section of copper between the lead and the stop tap?

Is the supply pipe upstream black alchathene? or blue mdpe? If so get a squasher and while it is squashed fit a new stop tap.

If there is some copper, make preperations, cut and bang on a compression fit stop tap turned on with hose connected so mains pressure relieved until you get compression joint tight.

If it is lead, you need a plumber who can judge the poundage and adopt above method through a lead lock or line.

Whoever takes it on needs a big heart, plenty of prior experience, good insurance and strong wrists. Most plumbers qualify. Diy ers tend to lack most of these.

 

[tamz]

I think the plumber told her that because it is leaking that it was not possible to freeze. Is this not so?

Depends on how much of a leak. It will never freeze with the stupid tins you can buy. Would need a proper pipe freezing kit with the big bottle of CO2.

To do it live, as long as there is a bit space around it, it can be done easily enough as PB said.

If there is not much space around the valve (eg inside a unit) and a decent enough space below the floor (enough to sit up in) it may be easier to lift a few boards, go down and cut one in there.

If the valve on the street has been tarred over or whatever, it is up to the Water Authority to find and expose it at no cost to you.

 

[Paul Barker]

I had to decommission fire hoses in an old peoples' home round here a few years back. My client had tried by digging up their land to find isolation. The water baord were unable to find isolation either.

In the end somebody had to take responsibility and a risk.

So I got the local water board man to stand by the isolation for the whole street, which was all they could manage. (They are allowed to isolate it without notice in an emergency).

As I snatched it I knew that he would limit the damage if I failed, until I could recover.

In the event it all went smoothly.

The visions of old people on zimmers floating down the corridors ocupied my dreams for a few nights before the day.

The flow of water to fire hoses is something to behold.

 

[tamz]

When i was an apprentice got sent with my journeyman to rewasher a 2" stopcock on a school. Valve was in basement boiler house. Couldn't find where the water turned off so he suggested I get it done live and threw me a yellow waterproof jacket while he climbed up to the tanks to open the drain valve ("so it's got somewhere to go")
Ya **** thats when i learned how much water comes through a 2" pipe
Took me around 10 minutes to get it out cut a bit insertion to size and get it back in (after about 20 tries) while he sat at the top of the stairs laughing and having a fag.
I was like a drowned rat and there was about 6" of water in the basement. Had to go for a pump to empty it. Later he said he never expected me to do it as he was having a laugh but when i said ok he just played along. School was shut anyway.
I've though of that a few times over the years and had laugh to myself.

 

[Katie_Jennings]

Sorry, I am a bit late getting back.

Paul
Is the stop tap soldered in place? No, it is held on with nuts.The pipe upstream (towards the source) is it lead? No, it is 22mm copper.

Is the supply pipe upstream black alchathene? or blue mdpe? No, it is copper.

If there is some copper, make preperations, cut and bang on a compression fit stop tap turned on with hose connected so mains pressure relieved until you get compression joint tight. OK, I will tell the plumber this is how he has to do it.
Whoever takes it on needs a big heart, plenty of prior experience, good insurance and strong wrists. Most plumbers qualify. Diy ers tend to lack most of these. Rightyo.

tamz
Depends on how much of a leak. It will never freeze with the stupid tins you can buy. Would need a proper pipe freezing kit with the big bottle of CO2. In fairness to the plumber, tamz, he has not actually seen the problem so he was probably giving a
worst-scenario explanation.

To do it live, as long as there is a bit space around it, it can be done easily enough as PB said. To make sufficient space quite a large section of the (old) kitchen unit will have to be removed.
If there is not much space around the valve (eg inside a unit) and a decent enough space below the floor (enough to sit up in) it may be easier to lift a few boards, go down and cut one in there. It’s not boarded as it’s a concrete floor.
If the valve on the street has been tarred over or whatever, it is up to the Water Authority to find and expose it at no cost to you. I am hoping that they will call me tomorrow to confirm this (my friend is away in Spain with her sick mother – that is why I am involved).
Thanks, tamz.

I had to decommission fire hoses in an old peoples' home round here a few years back. My client had tried by digging up their land to find isolation. The water baord were unable to find isolation either.

In the end somebody had to take responsibility and a risk.

So I got the local water board man to stand by the isolation for the whole street, which was all they could manage. (They are allowed to isolate it without notice in an emergency).

As I snatched it I knew that he would limit the damage if I failed, until I could recover.

In the event it all went smoothly.

The visions of old people on zimmers floating down the corridors ocupied my dreams for a few nights before the day.

The flow of water to fire hoses is something to behold.

Sounds very white-knuckle stuff, Paul. I note your point they are allowed to isolate it without notice in an emergency. Thanks. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Katie_Jennings]

Would mains water come from a tank?

 

[tamz]

Would mains water come from a tank?

Highly improbable in your case. He is on about multi stories where even then, ground floor usually fed direct from street.