Subsidence?

[davidm1969]

I was looking at buying a flat and the searches have come up with the following comment:
There is within 25m of the property a moderate to high potential for natural ground subsidence.
- previous infill land

Visited yesterday (seller being awkward about providing access for a roofer - different story) amd saw this diagonal crack not identified in the level 3 rics survey done early August so only 2 months ago. There's also a hairline one above the window shown.

Surely this should have been spotted and commented on in the survey? Or if it has happened in only 2 months then it's pretty serious? Thinking to walk away but what do people think?

Thanks for all constructive advice from the experts out there.

Best

 

[RrogerD]

With the dry summer and clay shrinkage there has been a lot of problems with movement. Not saying this it but could be. Could be drain collapse etc.
What's it like internally? If newly decorated then walk-away.
Depends how cheap the deal is plus, further enquiries needed as to whether to 'walk-away' or not. Imo

 

[Fred Blogs]

that's a big crack and i am not a surveyor but, personally, I would walk away.

 

[RrogerD]

What do you mean by 'flat'? Which bit of the whole building are you buying?

 

[davidm1969]

What do you mean by 'flat'? Which bit of the whole building are you buying?

I'm buying a flat on the top floor (building is 5 flats). It's a RTM but even if there was a freeholder I d expect external or structural work to be a shared cost for the 5 leaseholders

 

[blup]

Big crack and infill land, don't touch it

 

[jj4091]

Ditto

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

To add to the chorus.. definitely walk away, don't touch it.

The crack is bigger at the top than the bottom because it's an extension and is sinking, downwards into the ground. Extensions have only 3 walls, so are unbalanced - the far wall is much heavier than the side adjoining the house. So if an extension sinks it almost always tips away from the original house, exactly as shown in your photo. The pivot point is the bottom of the point where it meets the original building.

It sounds like your survey has been done from a desk, terrible. They've highlighted the risk for the area but haven't seen the very obvious evidence. Sadly their statement probably covers their backs, so you wouldn't have a claim for the money wasted on the survey.

If at all possible, buy a house rather than a flat, even if this means a less ideal area. The risks with flats are much bigger, especially for converted houses. You'll save all the ground rent and maintenance charges, which are often quite scammy and opaque.

 

[RrogerD]

I'm buying a flat on the top floor (building is 5 flats). It's a RTM but even if there was a freeholder I d expect external or structural work to be a shared cost for the 5 leaseholders

Yeah, as others have said, ignore this one, sit it out. Something more suitable will come along.
Go with 'gut'. If something doesn't feel right then don't try to make it work.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Run, run away fast, don't look back!

Andy

 

[stevie888]

The searches mentioning potential movement are nothing to worry about.

Here in Essex most ground is high shrinkage clay so yes there is POTENTIAL for movement if other factors kich in and the searches flag that as a risk.

Here you have a different situation as there is definite movement. and a survey should most certainly have picked this up. I very much doubt this has happened in that short a time frame, though these things do happen: a place 200m form me has had to be shored after cracks appeared.

I would personally ask the surveyor for comment and probably raise a formal complaint though the RICS as I'd view this as negligence.

I share the views of the other responders: walk away.

 

[davidm1969]

The searches mentioning potential movement are nothing to worry about.

Here in Essex most ground is high shrinkage clay so yes there is POTENTIAL for movement if other factors kich in and the searches flag that as a risk.

Here you have a different situation as there is definite movement. and a survey should most certainly have picked this up. I very much doubt this has happened in that short a time frame, though these things do happen: a place 200m form me has had to be shored after cracks appeared.

I would personally ask the surveyor for comment and probably raise a formal complaint though the RICS as I'd view this as negligence.

I share the views of the other responders: walk away.

Thanks have asked surveyor why not mentioned in his L3 survey report and to send his photos taken then. If these don't show the crack fair enough if they do I agree a complaint may be in order tho usually most regulators or associations seem to require going through a firm's own complaint process first..

Thanks a lot

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I've seen extensions tipping over away from the house in exactly the same way on 3 houses we viewed. Neither were in particularly subsidence-prone areas, they were just badly built with insufficient foundations.

It would need either a huge underpinning operation or just demolition and rebuilding. It was probably a lobbed together extension on top of topsoil, built as a DIY or cowboy builder project back when it was a house.

I think there are good points made about the survey by others, you should have a case for asking for a refund.

The real lesson though is that looking with your own eyes would have saved a ton of legal and survey costs. Don't get guided when doing viewings, they may be steering you away from the dodgy bits.

 

[davidm1969]

I've seen extensions tipping over away from the house in exactly the same way on 3 houses we viewed. Neither were in particularly subsidence-prone areas, they were just badly built with insufficient foundations.

It would need either a huge underpinning operation or just demolition and rebuilding. It was probably a lobbed together extension on top of topsoil, built as a DIY or cowboy builder project back when it was a house.

I think there are good points made about the survey by others, you should have a case for asking for a refund.

The real lesson though is that looking with your own eyes would have saved a ton of legal and survey costs. Don't get guided when doing viewings, they may be steering you away from the dodgy bits.

Thanks I don't remember seeing a big crack like shown in the photo otherwise I would def have thought twice about it. Will see whether surveyor 's photos showed same crack or whether it has happened since Aug 3rd.

 

[davidm1969]

I was looking at buying a flat and the searches have come up with the following comment:
There is within 25m of the property a moderate to high potential for natural ground subsidence.
- previous infill land

Visited yesterday (seller being awkward about providing access for a roofer - different story) amd saw this diagonal crack not identified in the level 3 rics survey done early August so only 2 months ago. There's also a hairline one above the window shown.

Surely this should have been spotted and commented on in the survey? Or if it has happened in only 2 months then it's pretty serious? Thinking to walk away but what do people think?

Thanks for all constructive advice from the experts out there.

Best
View attachment 423917

View attachment 423918

UPDATE



RICs surveyor confirmed cracks weren't present on 3 Aug and has sent photos showing. His advice

"
We are seeing this a lot at the moment as we are coming into Autumn out of summer due to long periods of dry warm/hot weather then the change into colder weather with a combination of wet and dry is causing the building to contract and expand.

This will need further investigation. The crack in the render will need to be hacked off back to the brickwork to see if the crack is running through the bricks, if so; then this is structural movement and you will need to appoint a structural engineer to advise further on repairs.

If the crack is not running through the brickwork then it is just the render that is affected and this will need to be repaired. "

Thanks to everyone for their advice given

Best