Start a thread. I'll dig some figures out and do sums as I am curious.
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Supplies of power (was in Putin...)
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I agree on both counts.
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Someone said Tidal. I looked it up somewhat , before. Bristol Channel is the big one. Perhaps the only one worthwhile, other than for small local projects.
Building cost is very high, building time is long.
Environmentalists would have a lot to say about birds etc then there's the fish farming.
Output would be "about 7%" of country's needs, but it depends where you put the wall, there are several smaller schemes mooted.
Up to 20% is bandied about if much more coastal area is exploited.
Something of an unknown because there aren't examples that big.
New technology solar panels are much better than current, in theory.
Cover somewhere which doesn't matter, like Middlesborough, or Milton Keynes, or Clackmannan....?
Building cost is very high, building time is long.
Environmentalists would have a lot to say about birds etc then there's the fish farming.
Output would be "about 7%" of country's needs, but it depends where you put the wall, there are several smaller schemes mooted.
Up to 20% is bandied about if much more coastal area is exploited.
Something of an unknown because there aren't examples that big.
New technology solar panels are much better than current, in theory.
Cover somewhere which doesn't matter, like Middlesborough, or Milton Keynes, or Clackmannan....?
I picked a GE 3mw turbine. On the face of things 1,000 of those could replace Hinckley, only a bit short. Chose GE as very likely to be as good as they get.
First problem. 3mw with a wind speed of just under 17mph. The average uk wind speed is fairly constant 9mph so more would be needed. Say 1900 of them. The 2nd is that it's an average. It will need storage to get constant power. Lithium is currently favourite. Tesla who do make units for this sort of storage.How much would be needed? The biggest currently in the world but still to grow
Vistra Energy is preparing to expand the facility even further to 750MW/3,000MWh, after signing off-take agreement contracts with California investor-owned utility (IOU) Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) for the next 350MW/1,400MWh phase which should come online by June next year if the agreement is approved by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC).
It doesn't look small and note it has a mw rating as well - how much current it can put out
www.solarpowerworldonline.com
Can't find any info on cost of off line power station storage but the Californian one is for 4hrs. How long would wind need? I did see a Tesla price a while ago but link wont op up. Future projection suggest say $150 to $250 per kwh. Mention of reducing price by 90% - an aim anyway over a period of time.
Cost. Bit of a problem there as couldn't find prices on a GE. A brand on a site pushing its reckons it works out ar £2.33m each. Total price including installation but that is very likely to be a variable. Type of land, getting it to the grid etc. Another site showing cost reductions. Off shore costs ~2x on shore.
Space. USA info for a turbine farm ~4mw per square km. Or another same site 1/4 acre per mw each. If too close efficiency drops off. Not easy to find definite info so far but in practice a compromise is likely to be used. It relates to the rotor diameter and wind power used up by each one.
So 1900x2,33m = £4,4b plus storage costs or £8,8b for off shore +same.
Hinkley ~£25.5b. Less space and lifetime of 60years. Next one built may be 80. Decommissioning costs are paid on the fly as electricity is used.
Maintenance cost of wind? Batteries don't last for ever but given long periods of rather low wind levels at times I suspect the numbers would not stack up. 60 years is a long time - how long will the turbine heads last?
Rolls Royce seem to have finally got started on small reactors. Other parts of the world already started. Seems we intend to install a number of the small ones.
From this I don't think the world is mad and most countries doing or aiming for a solution are following the same route.
The UK's plan
Worrying really considering what will be going off line soon and gas problems that we probably didn't have when this was thought about. That could be used to top up if things for one reason or another don't work out. Probably why there is interest in more from the N Sea.
First problem. 3mw with a wind speed of just under 17mph. The average uk wind speed is fairly constant 9mph so more would be needed. Say 1900 of them. The 2nd is that it's an average. It will need storage to get constant power. Lithium is currently favourite. Tesla who do make units for this sort of storage.How much would be needed? The biggest currently in the world but still to grow
Vistra Energy is preparing to expand the facility even further to 750MW/3,000MWh, after signing off-take agreement contracts with California investor-owned utility (IOU) Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) for the next 350MW/1,400MWh phase which should come online by June next year if the agreement is approved by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC).
It doesn't look small and note it has a mw rating as well - how much current it can put out
World's largest lithium-based energy storage system storing 1,200 MWh of power now online in California
The Moss Landing Energy Storage Facility, located just south of San Francisco, California, has been connected to the power grid and began storing energy
www.solarpowerworldonline.com
Can't find any info on cost of off line power station storage but the Californian one is for 4hrs. How long would wind need? I did see a Tesla price a while ago but link wont op up. Future projection suggest say $150 to $250 per kwh. Mention of reducing price by 90% - an aim anyway over a period of time.
Cost. Bit of a problem there as couldn't find prices on a GE. A brand on a site pushing its reckons it works out ar £2.33m each. Total price including installation but that is very likely to be a variable. Type of land, getting it to the grid etc. Another site showing cost reductions. Off shore costs ~2x on shore.
Space. USA info for a turbine farm ~4mw per square km. Or another same site 1/4 acre per mw each. If too close efficiency drops off. Not easy to find definite info so far but in practice a compromise is likely to be used. It relates to the rotor diameter and wind power used up by each one.
So 1900x2,33m = £4,4b plus storage costs or £8,8b for off shore +same.
Hinkley ~£25.5b. Less space and lifetime of 60years. Next one built may be 80. Decommissioning costs are paid on the fly as electricity is used.
Maintenance cost of wind? Batteries don't last for ever but given long periods of rather low wind levels at times I suspect the numbers would not stack up. 60 years is a long time - how long will the turbine heads last?
Rolls Royce seem to have finally got started on small reactors. Other parts of the world already started. Seems we intend to install a number of the small ones.
From this I don't think the world is mad and most countries doing or aiming for a solution are following the same route.
The UK's plan
Energy: What does the UK's new strategy say?
The blueprint places a major focus on boosting supplies from nuclear plants and offshore wind.
www.bbc.co.uk
Worrying really considering what will be going off line soon and gas problems that we probably didn't have when this was thought about. That could be used to top up if things for one reason or another don't work out. Probably why there is interest in more from the N Sea.
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Blimey all the tech that is being made available
Slash bags for example
Take a slash in said bag and you can charge yer phone with it
Way I see it this could be scaled up
To power yer house a sort of super slash bag
Perhaps advise should be taken from some attending the Glastonbury
Festival they normally have alternative energy displays and exhibits run by bombed out of there eads tree huggers with the latest pedal power leccy generation caper
Slash bags for example
Take a slash in said bag and you can charge yer phone with it
Way I see it this could be scaled up
To power yer house a sort of super slash bag
Perhaps advise should be taken from some attending the Glastonbury
Festival they normally have alternative energy displays and exhibits run by bombed out of there eads tree huggers with the latest pedal power leccy generation caper
On the days when generators are making more than necessary, the extra can be stored, the cost could effectively be nil if it is otherwise unsaleable, so it doesn't matter if the storage process is uneconomic, such as hot rocks or electrolysis, and it can be sold at a profit when in demand.
"Intervention stocks" are self-financing if correctly priced.
"Intervention stocks" are self-financing if correctly priced.
3MW for a turbine is tiny. Do they still even make them?I picked a GE 3mw turbine. On the face of things 1,000 of those could replace Hinckley, only a bit short. Chose GE as very likely to be as good as they get.
First problem. 3mw with a wind speed of just under 17mph. The average uk wind speed is fairly constant 9mph so more would be needed. Say 1900 of them. The 2nd is that it's an average. It will need storage to get constant power. Lithium is currently favourite. Tesla who do make units for this sort of storage.How much would be needed? The biggest currently in the world but still to grow
Vistra Energy is preparing to expand the facility even further to 750MW/3,000MWh, after signing off-take agreement contracts with California investor-owned utility (IOU) Pacific Gas & Electric (PG&E) for the next 350MW/1,400MWh phase which should come online by June next year if the agreement is approved by the California Public Utilities Commission (CPUC).
It doesn't look small and note it has a mw rating as well - how much current it can put out
World's largest lithium-based energy storage system storing 1,200 MWh of power now online in California
The Moss Landing Energy Storage Facility, located just south of San Francisco, California, has been connected to the power grid and began storing energy
Can't find any info on cost of off line power station storage but the Californian one is for 4hrs. How long would wind need? I did see a Tesla price a while ago but link wont op up. Future projection suggest say $150 to $250 per kwh. Mention of reducing price by 90% - an aim anyway over a period of time.
Cost. Bit of a problem there as couldn't find prices on a GE. A brand on a site pushing its reckons it works out ar £2.33m each. Total price including installation but that is very likely to be a variable. Type of land, getting it to the grid etc. Another site showing cost reductions. Off shore costs ~2x on shore.
Space. USA info for a turbine farm ~4mw per square km. Or another same site 1/4 acre per mw each. If too close efficiency drops off. Not easy to find definite info so far but in practice a compromise is likely to be used. It relates to the rotor diameter and wind power used up by each one.
So 1900x2,33m = £4,4b plus storage costs or £8,8b for off shore +same.
Hinkley ~£25.5b. Less space and lifetime of 60years. Next one built may be 80. Decommissioning costs are paid on the fly as electricity is used.
Maintenance cost of wind? Batteries don't last for ever but given long periods of rather low wind levels at times I suspect the numbers would not stack up. 60 years is a long time - how long will the turbine heads last?
Rolls Royce seem to have finally got started on small reactors. Other parts of the world already started. Seems we intend to install a number of the small ones.
From this I don't think the world is mad and most countries doing or aiming for a solution are following the same route.
The UK's plan
Energy: What does the UK's new strategy say?
The blueprint places a major focus on boosting supplies from nuclear plants and offshore wind.www.bbc.co.uk
Worrying really considering what will be going off line soon and gas problems that we probably didn't have when this was thought about. That could be used to top up if things for one reason or another don't work out. Probably why there is interest in more from the N Sea.
If you're building offshore any new plans start at 12MW, I think new ones are mostly 14MW. Bigger turbines are better in nearly every way. Cheaper per MW, higher capacity factor, run more of the time.
Onshore is academic in the UK as the Tories have effectively banned it.
Rather than trying to add it up yourself why not look at the recent CfD bids and see what people have actually signed up to build.
Let's look at Hornsea 3.
2.8GW at a strike price of £37.35 per MWh.
Expected to come online in 2026/2027.
The puny Hornsea 1 has 7MW turbines and manages 46% of its rated power over the last year.
Hornsea 3 is going to use 10MW turbines, which means they'll have a higher capacity factor than their tiny siblings (bigger turbines are taller and reach faster and more reliable wind).
Now 14MW turbines are commercially available Phase 4 should maintain the wonderful low price.
2.8GW at a strike price of £37.35 per MWh.
Expected to come online in 2026/2027.
The puny Hornsea 1 has 7MW turbines and manages 46% of its rated power over the last year.
Hornsea 3 is going to use 10MW turbines, which means they'll have a higher capacity factor than their tiny siblings (bigger turbines are taller and reach faster and more reliable wind).
Now 14MW turbines are commercially available Phase 4 should maintain the wonderful low price.
Thus, for this analysis, we estimate that the cost of a 10 MW turbine is $8 million, while a 12 MW and a 14 MW turbine would cost approximately $10.1 million and $12.3 million, respectively.18 Sept 2020
More space taken than 3 and more or less similar cost per mw. Same wind speed problems as well. At rated wind speed they go no faster due wind loading and at some point as speed goes up will cut off.
The problem is variable wind speed and the need for storage, Space a secondary one.
Besides, How much does a Siemens wind turbine cost? $1,300,000 USD per megawatt. The typical wind turbine is 2-3 MW in power, so most turbines cost in the $2-4 million dollar range. Operation and maintenance runs an additional $42,000-$48,000 per year according to research on wind turbine operational cost.
France has been using Siemens for some time.
How much does a GE wind turbine cost? The estimated cost for each GE 2.5-127 wind turbine is about $2,800,000. With a design consisting of 39 turbines, the total turbine cost is estimated to be about $109,500,000.
a wind turbine with a working life of 20 years will offer a net benefit within five to eight months of being brought online.
Thus, for this analysis, we estimate that the cost of a 10 MW turbine is $8 million, while a 12 MW and a 14 MW turbine would cost approximately $10.1 million and $12.3 million, respectively.
For some reason no actual cost for big ones just estimates. They will clearly have to take higher wind loadings.
More space taken than 3 and more or less similar cost per mw. Same wind speed problems as well. At rated wind speed they go no faster due wind loading and at some point as speed goes up will cut off.
The problem is variable wind speed and the need for storage, Space a secondary one.
Besides, How much does a Siemens wind turbine cost? $1,300,000 USD per megawatt. The typical wind turbine is 2-3 MW in power, so most turbines cost in the $2-4 million dollar range. Operation and maintenance runs an additional $42,000-$48,000 per year according to research on wind turbine operational cost.
France has been using Siemens for some time.
How much does a GE wind turbine cost? The estimated cost for each GE 2.5-127 wind turbine is about $2,800,000. With a design consisting of 39 turbines, the total turbine cost is estimated to be about $109,500,000.
a wind turbine with a working life of 20 years will offer a net benefit within five to eight months of being brought online.
Thus, for this analysis, we estimate that the cost of a 10 MW turbine is $8 million, while a 12 MW and a 14 MW turbine would cost approximately $10.1 million and $12.3 million, respectively.
For some reason no actual cost for big ones just estimates. They will clearly have to take higher wind loadings.
So they should erect then on land near to Tory party members. Cornwall could take a fair number for @goneTurbines don't have simple list prices that are published. You can only guess. Partly that's because every installation is slight different, they tweak the height, exact gearing and sometimes even the size of the blades to make best use of the local wind conditions.
With offshore wind area isn't really a factor. Onshore it is, but again in the UK it's an academic question.
The government should allow the public to erect turbines in their gardens if they have enough space.
My neighbour built his own using a modified car alternator as a generator.
It worked a treat apart from the squeaky noise it made when the blades were turning.
The neighbours complained and he had to take it down as he didn't have planning permission.
My neighbour built his own using a modified car alternator as a generator.
It worked a treat apart from the squeaky noise it made when the blades were turning.
The neighbours complained and he had to take it down as he didn't have planning permission.
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They do, it is permitted development if it meets certain criteria.
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The Bistol estuary system could have been built and also incorporated a road/rail so that the cost was partly shared between energy and transport. If necessary some land less suitable for energy use could become extra compensation for wildlife.
Britain is one of the windiest places, yet don't have near a large enough turbine industry. I had shares in Mayflower who promised a factory but eventually went bust amongst shady dealings
Britain is one of the windiest places, yet don't have near a large enough turbine industry. I had shares in Mayflower who promised a factory but eventually went bust amongst shady dealings
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