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Tesla sales crash

Are we all retired here?
Lots of members claim of running booming businesses but they're here posting all day long.
I'm retired and don't have all of this time!
When I was working, my phone was only used to take and make calls or find material to order.
How come these top boll@x businessmen have time to talk shyte on this forum all day long???
 
www.dw.com

German auto industry braces for change as car crisis bites – DW – 01/27/2025

Europe's strongest economy is in trouble, and German automakers are among the hardest hit. They now hope for a more favorable economic environment after the upcoming election.
www.dw.com www.dw.com

German auto industry braces for change as car crisis bites​

Dirk Kaufmann
01/27/2025January 27, 2025
Europe's strongest economy is in trouble, and German automakers are among the hardest hit. They now hope for a more favorable economic environment after the upcoming election.

How to kick-start slumping electric vehicle sales​

One critical issue for all automakers is managing the shift away from combustion engine vehicles toward alternative modes of private transportation, notably battery-powered vehicles.

Independent auto industry analyst Jürgen Pieper sees ongoing uncertainty among automakers and consumers alike about the transformation, blaming a lack of a "clear [government] strategy on electromobility." The Frankfurt, Germany-based expert told DW that policymakers initially incentivized electric vehicle purchases, only to later abolish the subsidies.

Dirk Dohse from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW) echoed this sentiment, telling DW that the political "back-and-forth on state subsidies for electric cars" has created confusion. Specifically, the "sudden abolition" of state subsidies in December 2023 added to the uncertainty, he said. Additionally, the industry is struggling with "high energy costs and excessive bureaucracy."

The German Association of the Automotive Industry (VDA) also sees the weakening of Germany as an industrial hub, leading to a decline in competitiveness, as the "fundamental problem" for carmakers. In a statement to DW, VDA said that the trend of Germany "consistently slipping downward" in global competitive ranks was "alarming."

High manufacturing costs weigh heavily​

The question of Germany's attractiveness as an industrial location is crucial for the VDA. The association demands that the new government in Berlin and the EU Commission in Brussels must do everything to "restore Germany to a leading global position."

To achieve this, the auto industry lobby group wants "affordable energy, less regulation and bureaucracy, as well as a competitive tax system."

IfW economist Dirk Dohse believes, however, that the EU's climate target of becoming carbon-neutral by 2045 is "leaving the German government with limited influence" at least as far as energy policy is concerned.

Additionally, Dohse says German carmakers themselves bore some responsibility for the current crisis. "Necessary structural adjustments were delayed for too long, leading to sharply reduced profit margins. German companies took far too long to partner with strong software companies," he told DW. As a result, he said, auto companies "do not have a true 'breakthrough' product in the electric car market."

Insufficient charging infrastructure hampers EV adoption​

Dohse also emphasizes the urgency of "expanding charging infrastructure and providing planning security for EV buyers."

While debates about the value of subsidies for electric cars will continue, he insisted that rules governing access to chargers and billing should be "clear, transparent, and valid for a predetermined period." All policy measures regarding EVs must be reliable, and "avoiding abrupt changes based on budget constraints."

Jürgen Pieper also advocates for a "consistent strategy for new technologies." At the same time, he warned against overregulation and demanded "technological openness" where policymakers should set "precise, quantifiable [emission] goals while leaving the path to achieving them to the industry."

Carmakers' cozy relationship with politics​

The relationship between the German auto industry and politics has always been deeply intertwined at various levels of political decision-making. Regional governments have played a significant role in ensuring that the industry enjoys favorable conditions, while carmakers guaranteed well-paid jobs for voters.

In the regional state of Lower Saxony, home to Volkswagen (VW), for example, the government holds a seat on the VW board giving it massive influence over company policy. Similarly, in the state of Baden-Württemberg, currently ruled by a Green party state premier, or in Bavaria, where the conservative Christian Social Union (CSU) wields enormous influence in premium carmakers BMW and Audi.

Experts say the cozy relationship between business and politics has not always been to the benefit of the auto industry because any change of government can significantly impact company policy. Automakers cannot afford to ignore political developments and must maintain relationships across the political spectrum to safeguard their interests regardless of election results.

Trump's tariffs threat​

At the moment, however, one of the biggest threats to German carmakers' business prospects has emerged across the Atlantic, in the shape of the new US President, Donald Trump.
Trump has threatened carmakers from around the world, notably those in China and Germany, with a massive hike in import tariffs, urging them to produce in the US instead.

Jürgen Pieper says "Given the economic crisis and expected pressure from the Trump administration, the new German government may try to ease the burden on the auto industry." This could include postponing an EU ban on sales of combustion engine cars by 2035 and reintroducing purchase incentives for electric and hybrid cars, he told DW.

But the measures taken by the next German government, Pieper added, are as unpredictable as the makeup of the government itself, which pollsters say could be led by the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), either with the environmentalist Greens or the Social Democratic SPD.

"It's highly likely the planned 2035 phase-out of combustion engine cars may be pushed back to 2040. But in a coalition with the Greens that is less likely."
 
motorbiking said:
I think most people are attributing it a number of things. Not just his crazy spouting. It’s not the first time Musk has gone nuts. You probably recall his “taking Tesla private” tweet.

For me they have more competition and a semi tired line up that is leaving the door open. But yes the German economy and the fact they now have German alternatives is an issue for Tesla
Click to expand...
Did they accurately predict all of this?
 
motorbiking said:
They also do "business" with higher profit margin. I have an ex-tesla employee working for me and their business forecasting is incredibly impressive. They use AI/ML to generate sales targets based on inventory.
Click to expand...

carmanmemoranda said:
Did they accurately predict the latest downturn in sales ?
Click to expand...

carmanmemoranda said:
You said about how accurate Tesla s forecasts were.

What do you think I'm on about, I'm not swerving
Click to expand...


I’ve got no dog in this fight, but being impressed with how someone goes about doing something is not the same as claiming that they are accurate in what they do.

Setting targets are not the same as predicting sales. There should be some correlation, but equally it could just be setting stretch to sell more Red Teslas because there’s a surplus of Red Teslas.
 
Musk says he want to dig a tunnel from America to Europe.
He also wants to colonise Mars.
He is using the Boris Johnson technique of making nonsensical claims as clickbait to attract attention.
Why do people fall for this type of bullshit.
 
fillyboy said:
Trump has threatened carmakers from around the world, notably those in China and Germany, with a massive hike in import tariffs, urging them to produce in the US instead
Click to expand...
They could relocate to America but the cost of producing cars in America could be more expensive than producing them in low cost economies abroad.
Wasn't that the reason American companies relocated to the Far East in the first place.
To make American exports more competitive abroad, the dollar would have to be devalued which would cause inflation.
If American imports are going to be tariffed by Trump, then American exports are going to be tariffed in retaliation, that would nullify the effect of devaluation in order to make exports abroad more competitive.
 
johnny2007 said:
Are we all retired here?
Lots of members claim of running booming businesses but they're here posting all day long.
I'm retired and don't have all of this time!
When I was working, my phone was only used to take and make calls or find material to order.
How come these top boll@x businessmen have time to talk shyte on this forum all day long???
Click to expand...

Nosey probably watches his illegals doing all the work from his car while posting bs and spitting bile on his iPhone. He's just there in a supervisory capacity. :rolleyes:
 
Vinty said:
Musk says he want to dig a tunnel from America to Europe.
He also wants to colonise Mars.
He is using the Boris Johnson technique of making nonsensical claims as clickbait to attract attention.
Why do people fall for this type of bullshit.
Click to expand...
You tell us - looks like he's attracted you. :wink:
 
fillyboy said:
www.dw.com

German auto industry braces for change as car crisis bites – DW – 01/27/2025

Europe's strongest economy is in trouble, and German automakers are among the hardest hit. They now hope for a more favorable economic environment after the upcoming election.
www.dw.com www.dw.com

German auto industry braces for change as car crisis bites​

Dirk Kaufmann
01/27/2025January 27, 2025
Europe's strongest economy is in trouble, and German automakers are among the hardest hit. They now hope for a more favorable economic environment after the upcoming election.

How to kick-start slumping electric vehicle sales​

One critical issue for all automakers is managing the shift away from combustion engine vehicles toward alternative modes of private transportation, notably battery-powered vehicles.

Independent auto industry analyst Jürgen Pieper sees ongoing uncertainty among automakers and consumers alike about the transformation, blaming a lack of a "clear [government] strategy on electromobility." The Frankfurt, Germany-based expert told DW that policymakers initially incentivized electric vehicle purchases, only to later abolish the subsidies.

Dirk Dohse from the Kiel Institute for the World Economy (IfW) echoed this sentiment, telling DW that the political "back-and-forth on state subsidies for electric cars" has created confusion. Specifically, the "sudden abolition" of state subsidies in December 2023 added to the uncertainty, he said. Additionally, the industry is struggling with "high energy costs and excessive bureaucracy."

The German Association of the Automotive Industry (VDA) also sees the weakening of Germany as an industrial hub, leading to a decline in competitiveness, as the "fundamental problem" for carmakers. In a statement to DW, VDA said that the trend of Germany "consistently slipping downward" in global competitive ranks was "alarming."

High manufacturing costs weigh heavily​

The question of Germany's attractiveness as an industrial location is crucial for the VDA. The association demands that the new government in Berlin and the EU Commission in Brussels must do everything to "restore Germany to a leading global position."

To achieve this, the auto industry lobby group wants "affordable energy, less regulation and bureaucracy, as well as a competitive tax system."

IfW economist Dirk Dohse believes, however, that the EU's climate target of becoming carbon-neutral by 2045 is "leaving the German government with limited influence" at least as far as energy policy is concerned.

Additionally, Dohse says German carmakers themselves bore some responsibility for the current crisis. "Necessary structural adjustments were delayed for too long, leading to sharply reduced profit margins. German companies took far too long to partner with strong software companies," he told DW. As a result, he said, auto companies "do not have a true 'breakthrough' product in the electric car market."

Insufficient charging infrastructure hampers EV adoption​

Dohse also emphasizes the urgency of "expanding charging infrastructure and providing planning security for EV buyers."

While debates about the value of subsidies for electric cars will continue, he insisted that rules governing access to chargers and billing should be "clear, transparent, and valid for a predetermined period." All policy measures regarding EVs must be reliable, and "avoiding abrupt changes based on budget constraints."

Jürgen Pieper also advocates for a "consistent strategy for new technologies." At the same time, he warned against overregulation and demanded "technological openness" where policymakers should set "precise, quantifiable [emission] goals while leaving the path to achieving them to the industry."

Carmakers' cozy relationship with politics​

The relationship between the German auto industry and politics has always been deeply intertwined at various levels of political decision-making. Regional governments have played a significant role in ensuring that the industry enjoys favorable conditions, while carmakers guaranteed well-paid jobs for voters.

In the regional state of Lower Saxony, home to Volkswagen (VW), for example, the government holds a seat on the VW board giving it massive influence over company policy. Similarly, in the state of Baden-Württemberg, currently ruled by a Green party state premier, or in Bavaria, where the conservative Christian Social Union (CSU) wields enormous influence in premium carmakers BMW and Audi.

Experts say the cozy relationship between business and politics has not always been to the benefit of the auto industry because any change of government can significantly impact company policy. Automakers cannot afford to ignore political developments and must maintain relationships across the political spectrum to safeguard their interests regardless of election results.

Trump's tariffs threat​

At the moment, however, one of the biggest threats to German carmakers' business prospects has emerged across the Atlantic, in the shape of the new US President, Donald Trump.
Trump has threatened carmakers from around the world, notably those in China and Germany, with a massive hike in import tariffs, urging them to produce in the US instead.

Jürgen Pieper says "Given the economic crisis and expected pressure from the Trump administration, the new German government may try to ease the burden on the auto industry." This could include postponing an EU ban on sales of combustion engine cars by 2035 and reintroducing purchase incentives for electric and hybrid cars, he told DW.

But the measures taken by the next German government, Pieper added, are as unpredictable as the makeup of the government itself, which pollsters say could be led by the conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU), either with the environmentalist Greens or the Social Democratic SPD.

"It's highly likely the planned 2035 phase-out of combustion engine cars may be pushed back to 2040. But in a coalition with the Greens that is less likely."
Click to expand...
Poor Filly desperately trying to deflect from Trump and Musks massive failure.

How are those citizens in America doing eh Filly…..oh that’s right they are worse off because they voted in a c***t
 
I heard the reason Tesla ( and all other EV sales are down in the US is basically about range, and the non proliferation of charging infrastructure which people expected would be sorted for them. Visiting the in-laws over there can mean a lot of miles. Trump of course is anti.

Share prices these days for companies like that have more to do with speculators than value. The Price to Earnings ratio is by traditional measures very high, but nowhere near the meaningless numbers other companies have.
Elon just tried to buy the OpenAI company for ($97Bn,), owned by another billionaire, (Sam Altman) who said no thanks. Trump may be involved there, I daresay he would rather have the best AI in a non-open, American ownership. The Deepseek issue focuses minds on that. It's only one step away from China using US tech against them.

Ha! JD Vance is on Bloomberg right now saying how the Mighty Murrican needs to be in control of the best stuff.
He's dangling access to that AI as a threat to EU countries who want to regulate the likes of Apple , Google and X . Oh who owns X, and X-AI?
Trump can't do that while Sam - who's a Bill Gates type geek, says, nah, it's ok,we can make money and keep it open source.
 
motorbiking said:
You may not like them, but they are not massive failures.
Click to expand...
they told the American people voting for them would make their lives better

the lives of American people are not better, they are worse

So on that basis they are a massive failure

as we always knew they would be
 
Notch7 said:
they told the American people voting for them would make their lives better

the lives of American people are not better, they are worse

So on that basis they are a massive failure

as we always knew they would be
Click to expand...
There isn't much logic in that argument.
 
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