The 42 day rule

[acesumper]

Hi Folks,
Any advise on helping me deal with my useless council planning department would be much appreciated. I was warned about not using the council as they are the 2nd worst in the country. But I thought, 'let's do this properly'. I have a detached house and I want to convert an old coal bunker into a downstairs WC. We are not on article 2(3) land or a SSSI. The proposed WC, along with an existing utility, will extend to about 7m from the original house. 9 months ago I was told I needed to apply for a 'Lawful development certificate, proposed'. I made it quite clear stressing that it was for a 'neighbour consultation scheme' development. This was via email, which I confirmed with an unrecorded telephone call. The drawings were done, the form filled out and sent off along with the fee. After 5 weeks, this was rejected because I hadn't stated what the purpose of the WC was! I could not believe it. The word they were looking for was 'Ancillary', even though this was used in the application. So it went back in again, and then accepted as a valid application. However, 51 days latter, I have been told this does 'not fall within PD rights. This is a prior approval matter'. ie, permitted development, neighbour consultation. I will need to withdraw my application and resubmit using the appropriate form. Hmmm, this sounds exactly what I asked for in the first place.
So can anyone advise, does the delay of not hearing anything from them for 51 days mean that the 42 day limit applies in this case. That it is now effectively passed because of the delay. Any help much appreciated, many thanks.

 

[jeds]

If I read it correctly you are saying is that you applied for a CoL for PD when it should have been a prior notification for a larger extension.
If so the 42 day rule applies to prior notification and since that is not what you applied for it would be difficult to claim the 42 day deemed approval.

The lead up to you making the wrong application is annoying but, from a legal position, probably doesn't get you a pass on having the correct approval.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Everything jeds said, you'll have to apply again using the prior notification.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I would also add that no matter what the application you seek out advice from the officer dealing with it to discuss it with them well before the official approval date.

 

[acesumper]

Thanks folks for your replies. I've inadvertently clicked on 'bold' and now I can't get rid of it. Freddie, your point about the advice from the case officer didn't seem possible as he wasn't allocated until the application was accepted. However the previous advice was given by 'case officers' from the same department.

Jeds, I've included here the paragraph from the governments PD website.

'Householders wishing to build a larger extension have to notify the LPA about the proposed extension and the LPA must give adjoining neighbours notice of the proposals and the opportunity to object. Works cannot commence until the LPA notifies the householder that no prior approval is required or gives prior approval, or 42 days have passed without any decision by the LPA'.

This is exactly what has happened, even to the point of the LPA accepting the application as valid. So surely, just because they are now saying I've filled in the wrong form, which they sent me, I have fulfilled the criteria. I notified the council on their paperwork, it was accepted, and now more than 42 days have passed. Do you know of any legislation that either confirms or disputes this?

 

[jeds]

If you read the legislation further it also says that the application must be made in the correct format on the correct forms, blah, blah, etc. It would be nice to be able to say they are a bunch of clowns, stuff them and crack on, but!

 

[wessex101]

It sounds to me like the council dealt with it as a larger home extension prior approval application but once the application was fully scrutinised the council believed that the proposed work was not permitted development so it did not receive prior approval. The 42 day rule is irrelevant if it is not permitted development.

I have to say that your description of the conversion of an old coal bunker together with the mention of the existing utility room extending to about 7m doesn't sound like a larger home extension application was appropriate, as the name suggests it is for extensions not conversions.

Good luck discussing the application with the case officer. Down here they are all still "working" from home and most of them simply do not answer the phone or reply to phone messages or emails using the excuse that they are concentrating on the massive backlog of applications.

 

[acesumper]

Thanks again for that. However, I'm now looking at it in a very different light. On the council website footpath map is a 1946 aerial photo. This shows my house, built approx. 1840, already with an extension. This is slap bang where I want to put the WC. As it seems that all 'modern' extensions are measured from the back of the original house, or as it stood in 1948, I will then not be in the 4 to 8m neighbour consultation scheme. It should now be in the 0 to 4m PD. I wonder if they will want me to prove the house already had an extension in 1948 other than what the photo shows?

 

[wessex101]

So the old extension is not there now? Unfortunately you cannot use that then. Once it was removed/demolished then under planning rules it was as if it never existed.

 

[acesumper]

'original' means the building as it existed on 1 July 1948. There is an existing utility room that has been modified, but it's still there. But how can a council say if it was or wasn't there apart from old maps or aerial photos on this date.

 

[wessex101]

'original' means the building as it existed on 1 July 1948. There is an existing utility room that has been modified, but it's still there. But how can a council say if it was or wasn't there apart from old maps or aerial photos on this date.

I misunderstood, I thought you were referring to an old extension that had been removed.

If the old extension is still there then that is fine. The fact that it appears on a 1945 aerial photo is proof that it was there before 1948 and will be taken as "original" for the purposes of planning.

 

[tony1851]

But surely if there was an original back extension, no extension greater than half the width of the house could be built on the back without planning permission because of the 'side-facing wall' rule?