Theresa's mercenaries getting itchy feet

[SirGalahad]

JohnD pick one:

Would you like free movement of people to cause:

A) a brain drain from the developing countries where migrants are leaving

Or

B) infra structure issues in developed regions where migrants are arriving

Notch

Brexit has no reference to non EU migration. No EU country is considered as developing so point 1 is a tad misconstrued to say the least.

As to point 2 are you referring to demand on public resources?

 

[motorbiking]

I can take my car overseas with minimal checks, however if I plan to keep it there I will be required to register, insure, etc

surely the movement of people isn’t about visiting but settling? The same could apply. With no right to services or work, there is no real need for a border.

 

[SirGalahad]

I can take my car overseas with minimal checks, however if I plan to keep it there I will be required to register, insure, etc

surely the movement of people isn’t about visiting but settling? The same could apply. With no right to services or work, there is no real need for a border.

You do know that currently we have all the legal powers as agreed with the EU to enforce all this but our government chose not to. It's been posted numerous times.

There is freedom of movement but not freedom of settlement without restrictions we simply chose not to implement those restrictions.

 

[motorbiking]

If you look in to the detail you’ll realise that the test for removal is quite high and nothing stops them getting back on the next ferry.

 

[JohnD]

that's what you just said you wanted.

there is no real need for a border.

Do you want free movement?

Or do you want control?

Pick one.

(only one).

And tell us where you want the post-Brexit border controls to be.

 

[SirGalahad]

If you look in to the detail you’ll realise that the test for removal is quite high and nothing stops them getting back on the next ferry.

Sorry but that is patently wrong. We can restrict but we did not as we never enforced entry and exit checks.

I suggest you read the rulings it's quite extensive and clear what a country can do if so it wishes.

 

[SirGalahad]

http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/eu-free-movement-law-in-10-questions.html?m=1

If you don't implement a policy then blame said policy then it's a straw man argument.

 

[motorbiking]

read the actual directive:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038&

Still convinced?
You are aware that the UK tried to implement a policy of deporting EU citizens convicted of crime, which was challenged and overturned in the ECJ.

 

[JohnD]

do you want control or don't you?

 

[SirGalahad]

read the actual directive:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32004L0038&

Still convinced?
You are aware that the UK tried to implement a policy of deporting EU citizens convicted of crime, which was challenged and overturned in the ECJ.

Have you read it. It's clear what countries can do and deport. Which I have mentioned numerous times. We didn't implement it and thus made it harder for ourselves to deport.

By having no entry exit checks and not forcing the 3 month rule we simply made settlement easy and thus made it harder for ourselves for reporting.

So again your knocking the policy that was never implemented.

https://fullfact.org/europe/explaining-eu-deal-deporting-eu-immigrants/

If we had proper entry and exit controls we could enforce policies in regards to settlement and deportation far more effectively.

 

[motorbiking]

You keep posting articles that support my argument

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...olicy-deport-eu-rough-sleepers-ruled-unlawful

We've tried many attempts to get policies in place that can work within the directive but at each stage they have been thwarted - it is disingenuous to say we didn't put policies in place. We did, they were removed.

 

[SirGalahad]

You keep posting articles that support my argument

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...olicy-deport-eu-rough-sleepers-ruled-unlawful

We've tried many attempts to get policies in place that can work within the directive but at each stage they have been thwarted - it is disingenuous to say we didn't put policies in place. We did, they were removed.

Aghhhhhh

No I'm not. It's simple.

When the gov failed to implement the directives they then tried to circumvent them or work around them which has caused all these issues.

They would rather not admit it was their non implementation which caused this which would have been an admission of an error and political suicide so they went off trying to find other means to implement restrictions which they could have always done but chose not to.

 

[Notch7]

If we had proper entry and exit controls we could enforce policies in regards to settlement and deportation far more effectively.

How does that have any effect on the free movement of people.

Do you think the concern for overcrowding in this country is due to:

the deal allows host countries to keep out or deport people whose behaviour is “likely (as opposed to “does”) to represent a genuine and serious threat to public policy or security”.

Or do you think its due to the large number law abiding people coming to the UK to work legitimately? Or are you saying the EU rules allow the UK to prevent these people coming but the UK ignore it?

 

[IWalkLikeHimaMartian]

It looks like some posters are just writing utter nonsense.
If we do not have control over the border between NI and RoI, (assuming we are not in a/the customs union) what is the point of a border control anywhere else, Calais, Dover, etc? It is not just about people movement. RoI is not in the Schengen area so movement of people into RoI is controlled at RoI borders already. But EU citizens have relatively free movement.

I think the UK are intending on prevaricating until Brexit happens, without proposing or implementing a hard border, which will kind of force the RoI/EU to implement the hard border. The UK government will the point the finger at the EU and blame them for the reintroduction of a hard border.
Except, of course, the EU border will only control movement of goods or people into the RoI/EU, not out of. The UK government will be obliged to implement their own controls for any inward movement of goods or people.

It will result in chaos! Of that there can be no doubt.

 

[motorbiking]

There could be some merit in your assumption - A lets see who blinks first.
But interestingly It works ok with Turkey /Greece and Cyprus.

Having sailed greece to turkey and back again it is funny how Turkey imposes different tariffs on EU citizens. French nationals can enter turkey and pay nothing, Canadians must pay 45 euro.. brits a £10.
There are very limited checks. Its more about the fees. Until recently it was far harder to sail a yacht from UK to Belgium because of fuel duty than EU to non EU.