Thinking of changing my boiler

[Mr M]

I currently have a Worcester 240 combi. No problems with it but it's about 13 or 14 years old and I think it is probably not running at its most efficient these days. I am therefore thinking of swapping it for a new boiler:-

1) Do I have to have a condensing boiler fitted these days?
2) The rads and pipework are the same age as the boiler and whilst I would consider replacing the radiators, all existing pipework would be staying. Is it sufficient to do a mains pressure flush by draining from a radiator drain off to outside and using the filling loop to gradually flush the system out with clean water or should I put some cleaner in the system say the week before I swap the radiators and boiler and then mains flush?
3) What cleaners are recommended for the above?
4) Other than a powerflush or the mains flush described above, are there any other methods of flushing out which I could tackle or would I be wasting my time?
5) What are yor opinions on fitting a Magna Clean?

 

[muggles]

I currently have a Worcester 240 combi. No problems with it but it's about 13 or 14 years old and I think it is probably not running at its most efficient these days. I am therefore thinking of swapping it for a new boiler:-

1) Do I have to have a condensing boiler fitted these days? Yes
2) The rads and pipework are the same age as the boiler and whilst I would consider replacing the radiators, all existing pipework would be staying. Is it sufficient to do a mains pressure flush by draining from a radiator drain off to outside and using the filling loop to gradually flush the system out with clean water or should I put some cleaner in the system say the week before I swap the radiators and boiler and then mains flush? Put a cleaner such as Sentinel X400 or Fernox F3 in 3-4 weeks before commencing work, then drain down (including venting all rads), refill (including venting all rads), drain down again (vent rads...) checking the water is clear, if it isn't refill (vent...) and drain down again until it is. Replacing radiators is not necessary when fitting a new boiler but if that's what you want to do then go for it
3) What cleaners are recommended for the above? Already answered
4) Other than a powerflush or the mains flush described above, are there any other methods of flushing out which I could tackle or would I be wasting my time? As already described. A mains flush as I understand you describing it will be inadequate as it won't flush the system properly
5) What are yor opinions on fitting a Magna Clean?Fit a Magnaclean TwinTech for maximum protection, although a standard MagnaClean is still very good.

 

[Agile]

It all depends on how clean your system is at the moment!

If its quite clean then a mains flush can be quite good if you do it properly.

That means closing all but one rad and running until the effluent is clean. Then move on the the next rad so that each rad is flushed on its own.

Adding the X400 for at least four weeks with heating on for at least two hours a day is a good idea if there is much discolouration and then the mains flush as described above.

Power flushing is quicker and can all be done in one day and is best for very dirty systems but it still does have to be done properly.

Tony

 

[D_Hailsham]

I currently have a Worcester 240 combi. No problems with it but it's about 13 or 14 years old and I think it is probably not running at its most efficient these days. I am therefore thinking of swapping it for a new boiler

If you think you will save money by replacing your boiler, you won't.

If you are doing it to save the planet, that's a different matter.

The best advice is: don't replace it until you have to.

 

[onlyfitidealboilers]

Well best advice I could give is keep your worcester 240 thats the best blr worcester have ever made, and is also the reason worcester have good name today.

 

[Happyplumber]

yes stick with the boiler,you have after all the costs of new install etc you wont have much benefeit and as its working fine then why bother

What ever you do dont install an IDEAL boiler forget 14 years,it may not last 14 weeks lolz !!

 

[nishnish]

I currently have a Worcester 240 combi. No problems with it but it's about 13 or 14 years old and I think it is probably not running at its most efficient these days. I am therefore thinking of swapping it for a new boiler:-

As plenty of others, more knowledgeable than I, have stated, keep it.
I've just bought a house with a 240 RSF installed.
I too thought it was long in the tooth initially.
However, I've changed my mind too, from reading the sage comments across this forum and others.
I have a voucher for the boiler scrappage scheme.
Was thinking about the quotes I had to go for a Vaillant 837. £1500 cheapest. Not necessarily best.
I recently had a hot water trip out problem.
Was put on it initially via plumber, that I got in for a boiler service (knowing nish then) who told me that my gas valve needed replacing. £160. "How many more parts will you need replacing? You'd be better with a new boiler mate."
Since that visit, I've been absorbing this forum.
Fixed it with a new thermistor for £6.69+VAT.
I cold flushed all the rads. Got a lot of sludge out.
Then Sentinel x800, hot flushing all the rads. Even more sludge out.
Fitted a Spirovent Spirocombi Magnabooster. Which is similar to a Magnaclean Twintech, but seemed a better product to me. Cost similar. It also removes air from the system. Which the Magnacleans don't.
Anyway that's my tuppence.

 

[Mr M]

Thanks for all of your replies.

It all depends on how clean your system is at the moment!

If its quite clean then a mains flush can be quite good if you do it properly.

That means closing all but one rad and running until the effluent is clean. Then move on the the next rad so that each rad is flushed on its own.

Adding the X400 for at least four weeks with heating on for at least two hours a day is a good idea if there is much discolouration and then the mains flush as described above.

Power flushing is quicker and can all be done in one day and is best for very dirty systems but it still does have to be done properly.

Tony

I'll have a think about my next move regarding the boiler then but in the meantime, I am definitely going to put some X400 in and leave it running around the system for about a month.

I mentioned in my initial post about fitting a Magnaclean or something similar (Boiler Buddy etc). Should I fit this now ie when I put the X400 in, with a view to cleaning it out periodically over the month while the X400 is doing its job and then doing a final mains flush. Is this a better option than not fitting a Magnaclean and just doing a final mains flush after a month?

 

[nishnish]

Should I fit this now ie when I put the X400 in, with a view to cleaning it out periodically over the month while the X400 is doing its job and then doing a final mains flush. Is this a better option than not fitting a Magnaclean and just doing a final mains flush after a month?

I'd fit it before the X400. It can then be collecting over the full month.
I can't see a mains flush removing the same amount.
Besides, you can fit the magnaclean and do a mains flush.
I'd go for the magnaclean twintech, with filter, or a Spirocombi with magnabooster.
I live in a very soft water area. Still, the Spirocombi collects little bits of scale and also other bits & pieces beyond the magnetite i.e. you need more than a magnet.
I considered the x400 approach, but after reading here, I decided to go with the more effective x800.
Do a hot flush per rad with that. Gets out loads that the cold flush doesn't.
Poor man's power flush
Though I guess a cold flush, x800 hot flush, x400 for a month, cold flush, inhibitor; can only be better still.

 

[Mr M]

I considered the x400 approach, but after reading here, I decided to go with the more effective x800.

I thought that I had read somewhere that X800 is for use with power flushing machines and that X400 should be used as a general magnetite sludge remover?

Do a hot flush per rad with that. Gets out loads that the cold flush doesn't.

Sorry if it sounds like a daft question but what is the procedure for correctly doing a "hot flush per rad"

 

[nishnish]

I thought that I had read somewhere that X800 is for use with power flushing machines and that X400 should be used as a general magnetite sludge remover?

It can be used with a machine or without.

Sorry if it sounds like a daft question but what is the procedure for correctly doing a "hot flush per rad"

Turn off all radiator valves, except those on one radiator, which both need to be open. Turn on CH, nice and hot. The full force of the pump will then be applied to that one rad. Leave a suitable time. 20mins per rad? Guess work really. Then perform same for all your rads, one by one.
Doing that whilst running the CH normally will shift the most stuff you can from your rads, without getting into a power flush.
I found my pump would force water into some rads, unless you shutoff both TRV and lockshield fully. Note your lockshield position, else you'll lose your system's balance.

 

[Mr M]

I thought that I had read somewhere that X800 is for use with power flushing machines and that X400 should be used as a general magnetite sludge remover?

It can be used with a machine or without.

What is the longest time that X800 should be left in the system then?

Sorry if it sounds like a daft question but what is the procedure for correctly doing a "hot flush per rad"

Turn off all radiator valves, except those on one radiator, which both need to be open. Turn on CH, nice and hot. The full force of the pump will then be applied to that one rad. Leave a suitable time. 20mins per rad? Guess work really. Then perform same for all your rads, one by one.
Doing that whilst running the CH normally will shift the most stuff you can from your rads, without getting into a power flush.
I found my pump would force water into some rads, unless you shutoff both TRV and lockshield fully. Note your lockshield position, else you'll lose your system's balance.

If I do the above but don't flush the 'sludge' dislodged from each radiator out of the system, am I not in danger of clogging up my boiler?

 

[JohnD]

if you fit your Magnaclean before adding the chemical, it will capture the black sludge as it gets loosened, preventing it accumulating again.

You will also have the pleasure of being able to scrape the sludge into a jamjar and marvel at how much has been captured.

 

[nishnish]

What is the longest time that X800 should be left in the system then?

Dunno. Sentinel's site just says something like '1 hr minimum'.
I put it in one afternoon, did each rad, left it in overnight, cleaned it out next day.
Forgot to say, as you are doing each rad, hit the one you're working on with a rubber mallet, or hammer wrapped in a thick cloth. This will dislodge even more. Do it all over, but concentrate on bottom of rad and especially the bottom centre.

If I do the above but don't flush the 'sludge' dislodged from each radiator out of the system, am I not in danger of clogging up my boiler?

You are indeed.
Alternative is taking each rad off and flushing it out.
Hard to do that hot and with x800.
Unless you wanna pay £500 for a power flush.
Fit the magnaclean/spircombi 1st and you'll catch the stuff as it's released. Yeah, some will pass thru the boiler, but flow should be as high as possible, only making a circuit through the boiler itself and one rad.

 

[Mr M]

So, would it be worth doing it this way:-

1) Get the system upto temperature
2) isolate the f and r pipes on the boiler
3) turn off all but one radiator and do the procedure similar to what you have described above but mains cold water flush out each of the radiators in turn via the drain off at the lowest point in the system
4) Fit the Magnaclean or Spirocombi and put in the X400 or X800
5) Leave to run for the specified time and then hot flush, again as you have described above

It will obviousy take a bit longer to do the above and it might appear to be overkill but, if I decide to keep my Worcester 240 and it prolongs its life then is this the best course of action