I know ive asked this or something similar before but its been that long i could do with a refresher. A job that should have been finished months ago, will i hope be getting done shortly. I have quite heavy wall tiles which are close to the weight limit recommended for going on to plaster skimmed on to plasterboard. Would i be better tiling direct onto the bare plasterboard, doing it this way means the weight limit has a fair safety margin. I was advised to use "bal APD" as a primer would this be ok painted on to the bare plasterboard. I am going to be using a water based adhesive, i know there is a danger that the adhesive wont totally dry out under large tiles but the tiles are pretty porous. Anyway the speed i tile at should give them plenty of time to dry. The question is though does bal APD only slow down the water absorbtion rate or does it totally stop it. I dont feel confident enough to use the adhesive you mix yourself as i would only get a couple of tiles up before it went off.
Tiling, bare plasterboard or with a skim of plaster
- Thread starter Hotwire
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Tell me what tile you are fixing, LxHxW and what are they, stone, porcelain, travertine.
Your weight limits are as follows:-
Plaster 20kg sq/m
Plasterboard 32kg sq/m
Aquapanel 50kg sq/m
(all of these amounts are well in comfort zones - off the record you can go 20% over and still be fine - but all this relies on how well these surfaces are fixed to begin with)
Skimming plasterboard is a complete waste of time if it's to be tiled and just reduces the weight rating.
Use BAL APD, it substantially reduces water absorbtion, but you'll need to allow the adhesive to air dry unless you use a fast track rapid set, (which is unneccessary).
If you're worried about the weight issue with the walls then you must be close to the limit of a ready mixed adhesive.
There are plenty of powdered adhesives available that are not rapid set.
If you want to stick to BAL then CTF3 will give you 2-3 hours working time, Ardex X7 will be similar, neither of these are rapidset but they will be set solid overnight and can be grouted the next day.
Your weight limits are as follows:-
Plaster 20kg sq/m
Plasterboard 32kg sq/m
Aquapanel 50kg sq/m
(all of these amounts are well in comfort zones - off the record you can go 20% over and still be fine - but all this relies on how well these surfaces are fixed to begin with)
Skimming plasterboard is a complete waste of time if it's to be tiled and just reduces the weight rating.
Use BAL APD, it substantially reduces water absorbtion, but you'll need to allow the adhesive to air dry unless you use a fast track rapid set, (which is unneccessary).
If you're worried about the weight issue with the walls then you must be close to the limit of a ready mixed adhesive.
There are plenty of powdered adhesives available that are not rapid set.
If you want to stick to BAL then CTF3 will give you 2-3 hours working time, Ardex X7 will be similar, neither of these are rapidset but they will be set solid overnight and can be grouted the next day.
Thanks for the info Mudster, the tile size is 440x310x9.25mm and they weigh 2.2kg apiece. Someone has worked this out before but i cant find the info 17kg sq/m seems to ring a bell. As for what there made of all i know is there ceramic tiles, they didnt cost a fortune though. The concern with the ready mixed adhesive is only what i stated in my first post, being it not drying because of the tile size. I was told to try the tiles to see how porous they are by putting water on the back and seeing if its absorbed readilly, if so the ready mix would do. The water disappears pretty quick. Is this a good way to test them. The adhesive i have is by dunlop, i can let you know a bit more info on it tommorow, i cant look now as im storing it in my mates garage. I have to cover about 20 /22 sq/m , how much of the CTF3 or Ardex X7 would i need and what does it cost, im hoping of course that the ready mixed i have will be ok. You say 2 to 3 hours for this type of adhesive to go off does the working temperature of the room have an effect on this. Im just trying to get the maximum working time out of it.
Dunlop is effectively BAL, as I understand they are basically one in the same company now, so I'm sure there's an element of rebranding going on there.
I'm not an authority on ready mix, I just don't use it, not because I dislike it, but I generally work with marble and stone which require their own adhesives.
I get 16kg/sq/m so you've no worries with substrate weights.
One thing ready mix isn't good for is building out, it's designed to be combed flat and that's it, it tends to lose structure and can shrink if use too think.
Depending on how straight your walls are you're looking at 3- 4 bags of CTF3 or X7.
Pot life on either of these adhesives is quite a few hours, certainly no worse than an open bucket of ready mixed.
This is in no way rapid set and is quite user friendly, it can easily be livened up by giving it a quick whisk (but don't add any further water). and do mechanically mix it.
You can get a paint whisk for about £5 to go in a drill, this is fine will mix a half bucket at a time which will be comfortable for you.
I'm not an authority on ready mix, I just don't use it, not because I dislike it, but I generally work with marble and stone which require their own adhesives.
I get 16kg/sq/m so you've no worries with substrate weights.
One thing ready mix isn't good for is building out, it's designed to be combed flat and that's it, it tends to lose structure and can shrink if use too think.
Depending on how straight your walls are you're looking at 3- 4 bags of CTF3 or X7.
Pot life on either of these adhesives is quite a few hours, certainly no worse than an open bucket of ready mixed.
This is in no way rapid set and is quite user friendly, it can easily be livened up by giving it a quick whisk (but don't add any further water). and do mechanically mix it.
You can get a paint whisk for about £5 to go in a drill, this is fine will mix a half bucket at a time which will be comfortable for you.
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Thanks for the info and working out Mudster. I had a look on the ready mixed tub and this is it "Dunlop waterproof ceramic wall tile adhesive" i think it said flexible to. It does say on it if your putting up large format tiles use a powdered cement based adhesive. The place were i bought it (the same place i got the tiles from) said it was ok for the tiles. Looks like that will be going back then. I went to "Topps Tiles" and priced up the CTF3 and for 3 and 1/2 bags it came to £106, expensive kit that hey. I shall have a look round and see if i can spot it any cheaper. Do you have any idea if i would need to dilute the "bal APD" one wall would be bare plasterboard and the others have a skim of plaster on them thats been there for years. Im going through all this planning and working out but i still havent been told the job will go ahead. What you were saying about "Dunlop and Ball" you find a lot of companies now that keep there original name but have been taken over by someone else. Im sure someone was telling me that "Dewalt" were owned by "Black and Decker"
BAL APD has instructions on the bottle as to what dilutions are required, From memory plaster and plasterboard is 1-1 with water.
If you are in or around london you could try Nicobond for adhesives instead
http://www.nichollsandclarke.com/
They produce a powdered adhesive that can be used directly onto plaster without priming, but not for use in wet areas. Called Unique.
If you are in or around london you could try Nicobond for adhesives instead
http://www.nichollsandclarke.com/
They produce a powdered adhesive that can be used directly onto plaster without priming, but not for use in wet areas. Called Unique.
I might get away with one bottle of APD then, i will look before i buy. Its a bathroom thats getting done and the new board thats going up is water resistant, its the wall with the bath on. Im in Merseyside, i will have a look round and see what i can find tommorow. Do Topps do a own brand adhesive thats any good.
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Don't know about Topps' own brand, but all I'll say is from my experience of tiling finishing on a Saturday after tile distributers had shut....
BAL Rapidset adhesive 25kg from tile distributers £28 inc. VAT
BAL Rapidset adhesive 10kg from Topps £26 Inc. VAT
....enough said!
All for the sake of not wanting to buy too much & having to return it. Still had to go out again & had less £££ for beer at the end of the job!
BAL Rapidset adhesive 25kg from tile distributers £28 inc. VAT
BAL Rapidset adhesive 10kg from Topps £26 Inc. VAT
....enough said!
All for the sake of not wanting to buy too much & having to return it. Still had to go out again & had less £££ for beer at the end of the job!
Yeah there dear alright, everything,s got a big mark up. Unfortunately there the only one,s in Liverpool it seems that stock BAL. Ive come across another adhesive im hoping will be ok. Im gonna make a seperate post about it.
Mudster, nice to know the APD goes a long way, especially seeing as how i would have to buy it at Topps tiles
Mudster, nice to know the APD goes a long way, especially seeing as how i would have to buy it at Topps tiles
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