Tiling on caberfloor P5 chipboard advice needed.

[digitaly]

Hi folks.

I'm ready for tiling and did a research for what adhesive to use on caberfloor P5.

My research lead to different result and I'm a bit confused now .

Most of cases suggest to use ply on top of caberfloor. But this is going to take my floor up to whatever the thickness of the ply would be plus the adhesive and the tile.

My problem is now that the kitchen floor (that used to be laminated), it's all in one with my open plan lounge (also with stupid laminated floor) and that would make a huge step between the 2 different floors and I would no fancy a ramp.

The ideal solution to this would be to tile on top of the water resistant cabelfloor but that has been not recommended because it take too long to cure?
Or do you know of any thin underlay? or a mesh? or something not too thick to use?

My wife in Italy she expecting a baby due next week or so. I will be flying on Tuesday and comeback in 2 weeks (so no one would be walking on that floor for 2 weeks . Would that be enough to cure completely?

I have spent most of the cash on this project and replacing the chipboard with marine ply would cost me quite a bit and add extra time to it.

My floor has lots of joist and noggins far more then recommended.

Caberfloor suggestions found on Page12 of: http://www.norbord.com/Euro_Caberboard_Tech_Guide.pdf

Guidance as to construction of
bases in respect to considerations
and timber bases is given in BS
5385: Part 3: 1989. Tiling onto
Caberfloor should be undertaken
only in joisted / fixed floor
constructions. Noggins should be
used between the joists at
300mm centres and the surface
provided for tiling should be
15mm exterior grade plywood
screwed to joists and noggins at
300mm centres. Existing boards
can therefore be overlaid with
15mm exterior grade plywood to
provide the necessary rigidity for
a tiled surface. Length of fixings
should be 2.5 times overall board
thickness. A tile adhesive is the
recommended bond material -
cement/sand mortars are not
recommended.

Excuse my English.

 

[Richard C]

I'm ready for tiling and did a research for what adhesive to use on caberfloor P5.

The best advice I can give you is don’t; crapboard is probably the worst possibly tile base imaginable.

The ideal solution to this would be to tile on top of the water resistant cabelfloor but that has been not recommended because it take too long to cure?

Powder cement adhesive only on floors not tub ready mix & you can get one supposedly suitable for tiling onto crapboard but, again, my advice is don’t unless you really want to risk having to do it all over again in a fairly short time. I wouldn’t even over board it; do yourself a favor, rip it up & replace with 18-25mm WBP ply, thickness depends on your joist size/pitch/span but probably a minimum of 22mm in a heavy use/load area such as a kitchen.

Read the Tiling Forum sticky & archive posts before you go any further, it may prevent you making disastrous & potentially expensive mistakes. Post back if you want further guidance

 

[digitaly]

thanks Richard.

Your words hurts me

 

[Richard C]

thanks Richard.

Your words hurts me

Sorry but no easy way to say it really I'm afraid

 

[tpt]

I'd second richard on this. chip - especially the water treated kind really cant be tiled on. its a recipe for failure of the bond

 

[digitaly]

Apparently someone has successfully tiled up on P5 by U nailing a chicken net into the board and then tile up on it!!!!

Theoretically that should work Or you think this is madness?

I got some off pieces is there a way I could test this method before going mad?

The P5 boards it's really rigid and solid and you can jump on any part of my floor and sound as good as concrete

 

[tpt]

years ago (about 20!) some fixers used to do this to fix onto wood. there were many failures.

personally i wouldn't and you'll get no support from the adhesive manufacturers if you do.

 

[Richard C]

I’m afraid you’re rather missing point; the concern is not just about getting the adhesive to stick, it’s primarily about floor rigidity. Chicken wire may well help the adhesive bond but is likely to make matters worse as far as overall floor rigidity is concerned. There are other tricks such as abrading the floor, applying a bonding slurry before tiling etc. Additionally it’s only a moisture resistant board, it’s not waterproof & will swell if it gets wet, the application of a cement/water based adhesive may even be enough to give you problems & there go your tiles when it all dries out. The Caberfloor guide & practically every piece of advice you will get recommends ply over boarding, never directly tiling to it & personally I won’t even overboard chip. It maybe a risk some are prepared to take to keep the amount of work & cost down but it’s a very high risk in a heavy use/load area such as a kitchen; you may save maybe £100-£150 in flooring materials now but it could cost you very dearly within 18 months &, as TPT says, you can forget any warranty claim.

You will also need to use a rather expensive latex based adhesive & modified grout to stand any chance of coping with the increased flex in chip flooring, if the flex exceeds the tolerance of the adhesive, the tiles will fail & your potentially expensive tiled floor will have to be replaced. Do a search on this forum & others & you will see many takes of woe after tile failure; I guarantee those involved wish they had done more research or taken note of advice they were given

 

[digitaly]

I'm going to a building merchant today to see what floor board to buy.

I might have to leave with a step for a wile, then I will take the rubbish laminated off the living room and tile matching with the kitchen.

Thank you all and especially you Richard...

 

[Richard C]

Duplicate post

 

[Richard C]

I wouldn’t rely on the Builders Merchant counter staff to advise what you need, they aren’t professional tilers or even trade tile materials stockists! What are you planning to do, overboard or replace?

 

[digitaly]

I was thinking of overboarding with WBP 6mm or if I can find it 3mm my caberfloor it 20mm approx and feels very strong already ... and no! I don't take advices from building counter staff. I prefer forums where information and experience move faster.

I'm also working out of a way to make some access panels where pipes and cables runs (in case for future services) and have them not grout but filled with with some sort of silicon.

The tiles that I'm going to use for the kitchen are porcelain 600 x 600 (pretty big).

The as adhesive I will see in selco what they got to offer and try to match with the one suggested on the sticky post.

 

[tictic]

3mm/6mm wbp ply is no good for overboarding...

if your joist centres are min 400/450mm then overboard with 6mm cement based backer boards(follow mfr inst)...hadrie boards etc

or rip the whole lot up and replace with 22/25mm wbp ply(sounds like the area your tiling,open plan is going to take a lot off traffic)..

make sure you use a good branded adhesive for poreclain...mapei/weber/bal/ardex etc..

check the tiles for any bowing as well..

 

[Richard C]

I was thinking of overboarding with WBP 6mm or if I can find it 3mm

You quoted BS 5385 in your first post & now seem to be completely ignoring it!

12mm is, however, generally considered to be sufficient in most light traffic/load areas (bathrooms). A heavy use/load area such as a kitchen/hallway etc could be another matter. Sorry, 6mm ply is nowhere near thick enough & 3mm is a joke; your expensive tiled floor will be doomed to failure. Only other option I would suggest you consider is a decent tile backer board but, again, I will not use them over crapboard.

my caberfloor it 20mm approx and feels very strong already

Define “feels very strong”; the joist size/pitch/span, floorboard material & thickness is what dictates floor rigidity; tell me what they are & I will tell you if it’s rigid enough!

... and no! I don't take advices from building counter staff.
I prefer forums where information and experience move faster.

Sorry I took this;

I'm going to a building merchant today to see what floor board to buy.

as an indication you were going to ask them what to buy!

I'm also working out of a way to make some access panels where pipes and cables runs (in case for future services) and have them not grout but filled with with some sort of silicon.

Your better off running in what ever services you think you may need so you can connect up to them in the future, any form of access panel in a suspended floor will just invite problems & most likely be a failure point; it will also look naff.

The tiles that I'm going to use for the kitchen are porcelain 600 x 600 (pretty big).

You will need a very flat & rigid floor for those, I fear what your currently proposing will not cope.

The as adhesive I will see in selco what they got to offer and try to match with the one suggested on the sticky post.

If your wise, use only quality trade tiling products of the correct type for your application & tiles; BAL, Webber, Granfix, Mapei (but not the stuff sold in BnQ) etc all available from decent, local trade tile outlets or on-line if you can order enough. Cheap own brand/DIY products are mostly crap & restricting yourself to “what’s on offer” from a Builders Merchant chain is a recipe for disaster unless it’s a quality product, especially in marginal applications such as you have.

 

[Master of None]

I had some success using 6mm nomoreply, its a cement type board but not cheap. Google it.
I fitted noggins at 400 centers and have had no problems yet (2 years).
I also used BAL powdered products throughout. Again not cheap.