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To Combi or not to Combi?

An unvented cylinder is one that runs at mains pressure rather than off a loft tank.

A new combi would be more economical than your current boiler as it will be more fuel-efficient however unless you have something truly hideous in there now it will never ever pay for itself in it's lifetime as it could cost you £2-3k, maybe more, to have installed
 
I am going to the house on Saturday so will post up the make and so on for some feedback.

So the system that I have now which has a tank in the loft is not as good as an unvented system is that right?

What is the benefit of a unvented cylinder as opposed to my current system of a tank in the loft and a cylinder in the airing cupboard?

Would it mean that I have to have a load of pipework done and a new boiler?

Thanks
 
So the system that I have now which has a tank in the loft is not as good as an unvented system is that right?

What is the benefit of a unvented cylinder as opposed to my current system of a tank in the loft and a cylinder in the airing cupboard?
First off, it seems I'm not the only one who can see all the warts on combis. IMO the only place for them is where it's not possible to have a storage tank and/or there is only one person in the property and they don't mind being without hot water and heating when the boiler packs in (ours was down for 6 days again this last weekend). In your case, you have multiple occupancy AND multiple outlets so you really don't want a combi.

If your tank is reasonably well lagged and what heat it leaks goes into the property rather than outside, then having a hot cylinder doesn't lose you any heat - the leakage just becomes part of the heating.

Assuming the current setup does what you want (primarily, that you get enough hot water flow rate and pressure), then stick with it. If/when the boiler plays up, just replace it with another heat-only boiler which won't mean modifying your system. Your system is simple, is understood by any competent plumber, and has little to go wrong with it. Hopefully, and already mentioned, it's have an immersion heater so that when the boiler plays up your can still have hot water.

Only consider an unvented cylinder if what you have now doesn't meet your needs. They are more costly - partly because of the numerous safety devices they need to be safe. Apart from giving you mains pressure hot water, they don't do anything your existing hot water cylinder doesn't do.
 
sorry i think I may have mislead you a little when I mentioned unvented, I was only using it as an example and not something for you to be bothering with. Let us know what boiler you have there, I pic from inside your cylinder cupboard would be a good idea!!! :D
 
Ok thanks everyone.

I will be going to the house on Saturday so will take a pic of the boiler and of the cylinder in the airing cupboard plus get the model number snd podt them on here.

Like I say the whole reason for asking in the first place was to see if it was worth getting a combi put in as I had always been led to believe that they are more cost effective to run, offered constant hot water and also took away the tanks in the loft and also the cylinder in the airing cupboard giving us more room.

But it really does seem that not many people like any type of combi.

I can see the benefit of being able to use the heating element in the cylinder if the boiler goes down.

Just trying to explore all of the angles and sides..

On the flip side as people say I would be mad to spend 2 or 3,000 changing a system that as far as I am aware works ok, but again it is the things that you are lead to believe.
 
... I had always been led to believe that they are more cost effective to run, offered constant hot water and also took away the tanks in the loft and also the cylinder in the airing cupboard giving us more room.
The latter - space saving - is, IMO, the only benefit of a combi.

As to your "constant hot water", well yes a Combi will provide a stream of hot water for as long as you need - but not very fast. With your cylinder, usage is decoupled from production - so your boiler heats the cylinder at whatever rate the system works at, and then you use it at whatever rate you want/the plumbing allows (great for filling baths).
With a combi you are heating the water as you use it - so you have a trade off between flow rate and temperature (and it gets worse in winter when the cold water is colder). To get even a moderate flow of hot water you need a boiler that's grossly oversized for running the heating - in my flat I have a boiler that's getting on for 30kW while the heating demand for a one bedroomed property with only 2 outside walls has a heating load of less than 10th of that (when I measured it). It's OK for washing up, having a shower etc, but filling the bath can take quite a long time. Because of the flow limitations, they are also not good in multi-occupancy dwellings - someone turns on a tap anywhere in the house and the shower goes cold.
The combi might not be "instant on" either. When you turn on the hot tap, instead of hot water coming out of the cylinder immediately, you have to wait while the boiler fires up and gets it's internal loop up to temperature. I timed it for the boiler in the house and from cold it can take 20s for the water to be flowing hot. Many modern boilers work round this with various techniques - such as having a small tank in the back of the boiler, or firing up the boiler every so often to keep itself warm. Once you do that, I can't help wondering how much of the supposed energy efficiency savings disappear :?

It is my opinion, and yes, only an opinion, that much of the popularity of combis is down to the people selling them. From the installer's POV they are simple to fit, and this in theory means they should be able to offer a lower cost - does all the saving get passed on ? Unless you've lived with both then you probably won't realise the differences until it's too late - and few people are going to pay to have the brand new boiler got rid of and their old setup restored. In any case, they'll be comparing a brand new system with one that may be 20 year old or more - which may hide some of the deficiencies of the combi in a comparative test. Since pretty well all new flats and small houses come with a combi, I reckon there's a whole generation out there who don't know the benefit of stored heat - hence they don't know to ask for better than a combi.
That makes it easy for the salesman to sell them another combi with the promise of constant hot water etc.

And don't forget, if you go back long enough, it used to be common to "put the hot water on" in advance of wanting (say) a bath, and turn it off again afterwards. So going back a a bit, it wasn't normal to have "constant hot water". If someone hasn't lived with a storage cylinder for a long time (eg they've had a combi), then they may well still remember the hassle of planning your hot water usage. Also, I suspect cylinders of old tended to be undersized and have slow recovery times - meaning a delay of possibly hours between consecutive baths.

Yes, I make no secret of my dislike of combi boilers.
 

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