Toilet conundrum

[dpm_dpmartin]

Hi all - if I don't provide everything needed to understand this, please just let me know and I'll find out.

This is my second toilet, so there's no urgency, but I'd like to get to the bottom of it (boom-boom!)... the other day I noticed a gentle hissing sound coming from it and I took the top of the tank off... here it is...

What happens is this - when I flush it everything seems fine - the water goes down the pan and the blue lever at the left moves to let water in... eventually the water rises to below the overflow level (which is not part of this problem) and the blue lever moves again and it stops. Then silence for about 2 or 3 minutes, after which water will - s-l-o-w-l-y - start to come in again (the hissing).

I thought this was because the blue lever had moved ever-so-slightly once more.

And I think I was correct... as you can press down on it and then the water stops coming in. But - this is the real problem, I think... I decided to put a weight on it - just to stop it slowly refilling constantly and doing all that hissing - and I come back the following day and see the water has all gone from the tank. Well, not all - there's about a fingernail depth of water remaining in the tank (I tested, with my fingernail).

Where has the water gone? Down the pan - I assume - but I cannot validate this for sure without doing another test I reckon - I assume so, because there's nothing on the floor and that's the only way out, right? I doubt anything is misconfigured or anything... probably a seal or a connector somewhere, right?

Do I need a Plumber for this (as I'm clearly out of my depth - but I am willing to listen and follow instructions)?

Thanks for any input.

 

[HERTS P&D]

New fill valve is needed, fit one of these:

Fluidmaster 1/2" Brass Shank Valve Bottom Entry | Toolstation

• 1/2" heavy duty brass UK shank • For use in a toilet cistern or storage tank • Ultra quiet • Minimal water hammer • Long life performance • Fast refill

www.toolstation.com

Andy

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Oh, so it is a replacement part that's needed here... I was more worried about where the water in the tank had gone. Can I check...

I thought the filling mechanism was just going about its job... the problem is that it is constantly being asked to do its job. After a flush the inlet valve does actually turn off when the water level reaches target- and then all is silent for a couple of minutes - it only starts letting water in again as the water level in the tank decreases for some reason (and it's not going into the overflow).

I assumed as the water level ever-so-slowly decreases some kind of float lowers and it then opens the inlet valve by design.

Doesn't that mean it's completely fine or have I missed the point completely?

Thanks.

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Thinking this through - or was it an overnight dream? - isn't it more likely the right-hand side that has the issue? The flush valve is it?

If water is draining out of the tank - and not via the overflow - then isn't it more likely to be exiting through this valve? If so - how do I go about replacing that?

I'm guessing that it can be removed without tools by pressing / twisting - but do you need a like-for-like replacement for it to re-connect into its base? Or can be buy something (like a Fluidmaster) to replace it without taking things apart (because, if so, then I might as well go the whole hog and do both parts at once, as what's out there today - the fill valve above is an example - just looks neater and tidier than these things in my tank - which, on the face of it, look more complicated but do the same job). Maybe this is not DIY after all.

Or do I just pull it out somehow and ensure I lick the rubber washer clean of any debris and try and put it back in?

 

[HERTS P&D]

Also fit a new flush valve:

Fluidmaster Dual Flush Push Button Valve

Fluidmaster's dual flush push button valve offers you the option of two different flushes. This adjustable flush gives the user control over how much water they use, thanks to the water-saving reduced flush option.The push button valve will fit both 1 1/2" and 2" flush outlets, and it has a...

www.toolstation.com

You could buy the new parts and get a plumber to replace them for you.

Andy

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

All this is fair enough... I guess I can replace the whole toilet if needs be... but that doesn't make me any the wiser regarding the questions I've been asking. I haven't learned anything... I've just been thinking about it and I don't know if my thoughts are good or way out-of-whack.

 

[HERTS P&D]

All this is fair enough... I guess I can replace the whole toilet if needs be...

Good idea, but why stop there, have a complete new bathroom fitted.

Sorry, I forgot that all the pros on here are here to teach all the diyers plumbing.

Have a good.

Andy

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

Ha... well - again - that's fair comment... but just know you took the time to respond here but provided me with no actual help.

Of course I can get a Plumber in. That was always going to be the answer if I couldn't learn anything more. So you just said what we knew anyway. I don't need links to a catalogue - especially when you don't seem to know that the inlet valve is clearly not a problem here - so what kind of "pro" are you? A dubious one, I'll warrant. I wonder if you enjoy turning up at customers saying - "replace the fill valve" - then like to disappear for an hour or two (on the clock), then unnecessarily fit it, find out it was never the issue - "oh, let's replace the flush valve too" - and disappear for an hour or two again.

Yeah... we've all seen you (or your like) before. I reckon I've deduced a lot by thinking about this myself.

Setting up a job for a new bathroom on Checkatrade right now... hopefully the quotes aren't more than £8,000 otherwise I'm being ripped-off.

 

[HERTS P&D]

You did ask in one of your posts if you needed a plumber....I said that you may need one. I would suggest that you not accuse the pro's on here of being cowboys, because that is truly offensive.

The water is probably running back into the toilet pan. This is a through bolt cistern so the whole cistern will need to be removed to replace the fill and flush valve, which is why I suggested buying the parts and asking a plumber to fit them.

For your information I don't charge by the hour, I give a fixed price, and I carry the parts that I have suggested to you in my van as a matter of course, because this problem is almost always caused by the water running back into the pan, and these parts commonly need to be replaced.

As I said above, have a good day.

Andy

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

That's totally fair - I did ask that. But getting a Plumber is the default position, right? I would've ended up there anyway, without creating a post here.

I actually wanted to learn something and that's why I went to the trouble of describing the issue here and showing a picture - to learn. The first thing you'd told me I should replace now seems to be the only part of this toilet that isn't suspected as being part of the problem.

I stress - it appears to me that the filling part is working absolutely fine, it's only filling when it is asked to do so and it stops when it gets to its level - admittedly then it starts again, but that's only because because water is exiting the tank. I don't believe this part it at fault.

As I relayed, I've put a weight on the filling valve lever so no more water comes in and - as I say - it has emptied the tank over a period of time - but there's still about a fingernail-deep amount of water at the bottom that isn't going down any more - so I'm now minded to think it's not those two bolts either. But, yeah, the job looks beyond me - it's not just tightening some things up or configuration.

I think I'll try to nip the bolts (carefully) just in case, then pour a litre of water in the tank from a jug (thereby removing the filling valve from the equation completely) and I fully expect to see that water disappear over time. Then I think everything points to the flush valve part, or its seal or whatever. But that's the kind of validation I was seeking here.

Or challenge (as I do accept I still don't know, and I've only concluded what I have, which could be wrong, by observing it in action and thinking about it a bit). You also have a good day, sincerely.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I actually wanted to learn something and that's why I went to the trouble of describing the issue here and showing a picture - to learn. The first thing you'd told me I should replace now seems to be the only part of this toilet that isn't suspected as being part of the problem.

Just replace the flush valve, it's the flush valve which is obviously leaking.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Just replace the flush valve, it's the flush valve which is obviously leaking.

I fear your advice will receive another war and peace post telling you that you should be explaining how to fit the flush valve. I've tried to explain to dpm_dpmartin that we know what needs to be replaced. This forum is to get advice, but we can't talk you through every single step to do the job yourself, plumbing is very hands on and it's not always easy to pass on how to actually do the work.

Andy

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

I've tried to explain to dpm_dpmartin that we know what needs to be replaced.

Andy

You didn't know, though, did you? You'd have me replacing everything... "New fill valve is needed" ...is what you incorrectly first came back with. When questioned about that you quickly changed your story.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Andy

 

[dpm_dpmartin]

"you need a new fill valve, mate, you're in luck, I've got it on me van... oh, it wasn't that"
"you need a new flush valve, mate, you're in luck, I've got it on me van... oh, it wasn't that"
"you need a new cistern, mate, you're in luck, I've got it on me van... oh, it wasn't that"
"anyway, here's your bill for all the parts, sorry it's still doing what it did before I turned-up"