Toilet story of woe....

[AlexS]

Hi

I need help. Let me tell you a story of woe. I got somebody to install a toilet a couple of months ago. Two weeks after installation I had water on the floor everywhere.

So the issue is that water is leaking through the two nuts/bolts that connect the system to the bowel. Please see diagram - the red arrow shows one of the two problem bolts. You can also see a photo of the bolts either side of the flushing mechanisms. Please also note the tank is made of flexible plastic.

Anyway the gentleman fixed it by adjusting the nuts/bolts and by coating them with resin. He stated the toilet had a "design flaw" and that it was a "rubbish toilet". Well this lasted for about 2 weeks before we had a repeat episode.... whereby he came around again and fixed it, and he came around another couple of times again with similar repeat episodes.

Frustrated I called out an emergency plumber, this time it lasted for six weeks before the problem happened again, this is what was written on the job sheet:

"Cistern leaking due to the c/c/kit being fixed in with fiber glass resen [odd because it was leaking without before]. Removed w/c after turning off water, removed cister from pan, removed c/c/kit. Re-fixed with silicone, replaced pan + cistern. Filled with water tested for leaks - NONE".

So I'm back to stage one, I've probably spent more than £600 so far on fitting - I'm getting pretty desperate - please help - what do I do?

Thanks

Alex

p.s. I'm not a plumber as you might have guessed .

Toilet

• AlexS
• 3 Aug 2009
• 1

Diagram, tank, and toilet itself

 

[Agile]

You have had the original installer AND and emergency plumber and both have not been able to make it work for very long.

You have not said who supplied the WC or where it came from.

Its probably as stated a "rubbish" and cheap design. I would take the view that its probably correctly installed as two plumbers have been involved but just a poor design.

In theory you should be able to complain to the manufacturers but if its cheap then they may not even be identifyable. Do you have the original receipt and the instructions with any maker's contact details.

I would take the view that its a design fault and that potentially you have a claim against the makers but that might be difficult to persue if they are in China or Poland etc.

Excellent pictures by the way!

tell us who its made by and where they are located.

Tony

 

[AlexS]

Hi Agile

Hi thanks for reply.

It's from Tescos Direct - I waited for about a year before it got installed (bought it March 2008).

It's part of what they call a "Annonay Standard Bathroom suite". The only code on the diagram is 56229205-A, which could be the document number or the part number (not sure). No other way to identify it.

I have a receipt. Not sure what my rights are here and what money I can get back (if any).

Are there no workarounds you reckon which will let me keep this toilet? Rather than having to jump through yet more hoops?

Much appreciated.

 

[seco services]

where abouts did he put the silicone ?
have you tried new bolts ans rubber washers ?

they can be a pain on some cisterns but useally new rubbers cure it.

 

[Agile]

I specialise in boiler repairs but I do think that I would be able to concoct a method of making it work using different washers.

Unfortunately, whilst you could try a complaint to them ( nothing to lose ) the fact that its over a year makes it a much more difficult problem although the requirement that something is "fit for the purpose" is probably not limited to just one year after purchase.

I dont like to encourage this but I suggest a strong "letter before action" to the retailer would be a good start. It could be that they have had loads of problems and will admit that its not a good product. You could also search on the web under the name of the suite.

You should aim to claim the cost of the cistern, installation and the cost of any callouts to it.

Yet again, for others reading this, if YOU buy something and get someone else to install it then the installer has no responsibility for its function or performance!

Tony

 

[TicklyT]

What material is the cistern made from? plastic? Fibreglass?
If it is moulded, and the mould release agent isn't thoroughly cleaned from the area around the bolts, no sealant will bond permanently, but that'saddressing the symptom, not the cause.

Are there nuts fitted to the bolts in between the cistern and the pan or just clamping the cistern to the pan?
Differential expansion and flexing of the cistern could cause leaks if the bolts are only pulling the cistern down onto the pan instead of being clamped tight in the cistern first.

Are there sealing washers fitted inside the cistern or outside?
If sealing washers are on the outside, water can run around the threads through the nuts. The same can happen if there's a plain washer between the sealing washer and bolt head inside the cistern.

Does fixing the cistern to the pan distort the bottom of the cistern?
If it does flex, that may disturb the seal between the flush valve and the bottom of the cistern. The water doesn't necessarily appear at the source of the leak, it may track across the ceramic, and run down the bolts. Overtightening the fixings may exacerpate this.
A softer or thinner doughnut washer ('gasket' on your drawing) may relieve this.

Were the bolt holes and the hole for the syphon deburred before the parts were fitted?
Any burrs or grit under the mating surfaces may stop the sealing washers from doing their job.

Is the top of the pan reasonably flat where the cistern clamps to it?
Sometimes the ceramic distorts during firing, making fitting the cistern problematic.

 

[AlexS]

Thanks for all your replies much appreciated.
Seems reasonably flat but I'm not expert. I guess I will need to consult an expert on site (anybody know a good one in West London - maybe someone here is available?).

Well as my total plumbing vocab is just two words: "thingy" and "thingy" hopefully a picture will say a thousand words!

Nuts and bolts

• AlexS
• 3 Aug 2009
• 1

Nuts and bolts

 

[seco services]

no wonder it won't seal the state of that rubber.

 

[AlexS]

no wonder it won't seal the state of that rubber.

I think this could be an illusion. There is white silicone around the edges of that rubber if you look carefully - or zoom in with your browser.

 

[seco services]

did he put silicone in the hole ?
its more likely getting between the bolt and rubber not the rubber and cistern and running down the thread.

 

[TicklyT]

.....There is white silicone around the edges of that rubber......

That set a bell ringing - sealants like LSX, used to seal pipes and fittings containing water are usually clear or pearlescent - white silicone is usually used round bathtubs etc to look pretty and stop the odd splash of water running down the back of it.

Did the repair include removing the bolts, cleaning everything up with a solvent (methylated spirits or similar) and replacing the soft washers, or was it just plastering a layer of silicone over everything?

 

[Nige F]

West London..is that the posh area. There should be no silicone round there at all . there should be a larger (possibly stainless steel )washer under that mushroom bolt head and a clean rubber washer under it . If you wasn`t so far away ( I get lost N. of Ashdown Forest) I`d come and do it on a No Fix- No fee basis . You send me a cheque 3 months later BUT the idea of a plastic cistern is

 

[AlexS]

Many thanks for all your excellent comments!

I thought I'd post a follow up. Below is my new toilet, I had about 4 visitors in the end who knew what they were talking about - all of stated the same thing - very poor quality.

In the end I got a new bog! Cheaper and far better quality. Picture has the lid of the old toilet (not quite fitted yet!).

I'm now in contact with Tesco about refund and compensation. They are picking up the old WC Friday - when the story is over I shall update this thread.

Thanks so much!

Untitled

• AlexS
• 12 Aug 2009
• 1

Untitled

• AlexS
• 12 Aug 2009
• 1

 

[jay1]

i was gonna ask if the cistern was secured against the wall properly, have seen it happen before, when people lean back on the cistern it slowly losens up the bolts causing leak.if the cistern isnt secured against a wall

 

[AlexS]

Thanks for asking - yes it was definitely fixed firmly to the wall at the time. Every tickbox was ticked and in the end you just have to look at the product supplied (so I bought a new replacement).

Cheers!