Turn off PIR security light

[Lusi83]

I've just had a security light with PIR fitted (part of a kitchen rewire).
The electrician who fitted it showed me that if it is turned on at the switch it works as a PIR but if it is turned 'off' - it is on all the time. So I could keep it on if I was doing something in the garden at night if nec...this seemed like a good idea at the time.

Now I have lived with it for a while it is starting to irritate me (didn't think that the cat flap is in that the door...the cat sets it off all the time). I'd like to be able to turn it off at night when everyone is home...

Also reading the instructions -it also has an override function where apparently if I switch it on and off it will override the PIR and it will be on all the time.

How easy would it be to change it? Is it just a matter of changing the wiring in the switch?

I should say if is a three way switch...one controls the kitchen light, one the pelmet lights and one the security light.
The pelmet light and security light are on their own circuit (the kitchen light is still on the downstairs lighting ring). The pelmet lights are on two transformers that plug into sockets on top of the wall units...

It looks a bit like spaghetti junction in the switch... all the switches are wired live to live (there is brown sheath on the old neutral wire for the kitchen light wire) - the PIR wires are grey and black...with sheaths on them and there is a connector in there where three neutrals (one from the PIR) are connected...and there is a live loop from the C terminal from PIR to the C terminal for the pelmet lights...

Am waiting for the electrician to get back to me...but have had the switch loosened for plastering and thought if it is pretty straight forward I could sort it out before I tightened it up again...
Thanks

 

[Adam_151]

can you draw us a picture of the wiring at switch, your description seems to jump around and miss bits out... sorry!

 

[TicklyT]

It sounds like the wiring will probably have to be changed inside the security light rather than at the switch.

Also sounds a little bit naughty if there's no way to isolate the security light other than pulling the fuse/ breaker in the CU.

 

[Lusi83]

Ok -this took a little while but hopefully it will be good enough...
and the PIR/outside light does seem to have four wires coming out of it...

Untitled

• Lusi83
• 23 May 2009
• 1

 

[Adam_151]

what you want to do is disconnect the grey from L1, put it in a bit of connector block on its own and forget about it, now take the brown from the same 3-core and move that from the terminal that its in, to the L1 that the grey was in

EDIT:

Oh, and you could really do with a label sticking on the switch which says "Isolate all circuits" .... and thats what you should do before you start to swap it around

 

[Lusi83]

Thanks for that - it seems simple enough.

Just a couple of queries - if I stick the grey into the joining box it will then be connected to the neutrals...it is only one bit long if that makes sense will that be ok? or does it need to be on its own completely...so I'd need a new bit of joining box.

And is it a bit dodgy??? Don't like the isolate all circuits bit...

Just out of interest what is the grey wire for anyway? Would that have been on a cable the electrician supplied or came with the light ??? and what will it be connected to in the light?

 

[Adam_151]

Thanks for that - it seems simple enough.

Just a couple of queries - if I stick the grey into the joining box it will then be connected to the neutrals...it is only one bit long if that makes sense will that be ok? or does it need to be on its own completely...so I'd need a new bit of joining box.

what you want to do is disconnect the grey from L1, put it in a bit of connector block on its own

Do NOT for goodness sake put it with the neutrals, ...well not unless you want it to go bang

And is it a bit dodgy??? Don't like the isolate all circuits bit...

Its normal to stick such a label on enclosures containing more than one circuit, granted it looks a bit out of place in a house, but generally you avoid it my not having more than one circuit in a switch

Just out of interest what is the grey wire for anyway? Would that have been on a cable the electrician supplied or came with the light ??? and what will it be connected to in the light?

grey is the switched live for the light (on the output side of the PIR), its just the grey core in a bit of 3-core that the electrician supplied, most here would have used black for switched live and grey for neutral (still sleeved accordingly)... perhaps your electrician still lives in an old colours world where black is neutral

 

[Lusi83]

Ok ...I'll have to get a new bit of junction box...either a two bit one and reconnect the neutrals and put the grey in the next bit or just a new separate bit for the grey- basically whatever I can fit in the switch- it is a bit tight in there! (Ok I didn't described that very well ...but I do get it honestly - bang .)

Apparently because of the layout of the electrics in our house it wasn't really practical to rewire the kitchen light on its own - in the future when the rest of the house is done I guess it will be sorted out properly...I do have a new MCB, all beautifully labelled - these circuits are right next to each other in there so probably not as bad as it could be.

The electrician who did it isn't that old - probably about my age -so be careful.. . I'm guessing it was because the old red and black are still in there...

Thanks again and if I survive I'll let you know how it went...

 

[Adam_151]

I wasn't saying your electrician was old, just that he lives in an old colours world... considering that they were in use untill 2004, that doesn't have to make him very old at all

Have you got a label on the fuseboard warning of wiring colours to two different versions of BS7671?

You want a bit of connector block, not a bit of joint box, a joint box is a round thing with terminals inside, and the only way you get a bit of one is if you drop it out the van when looking for something

 

[Lusi83]

Thanks so much - it is working!

Had to wait till it was dark to be sure but even the flip the switch on and off bit to make it stay on all the time seems to work too...

And thanks for the right name for the connector block (I knew it wasn't the right name just didn't know what was -even at my advanced age I can learn something new! ) I found a bit that I had hanging around...it is smaller than the one in there but big enough for one wire - so perfect!

There is a warning about the different wire colours on the fuse box ...

I did nearly electricute myself...flipped off the downstairs ring instead of the downstairs light circuit...luckily when the TV went off my daughter wasn't impressed and I realised what I'd done.
Funnily enough I was using my mains tester screwdriver.....as a screwdriver.
Lesson learned - I will now check and double check...

Thanks again
Lucy

 

[sparkyspike]

a joint box is a round thing with terminals inside, and the only way you get a bit of one is if you drop it out the van when looking for something

or if it's made by CED and you just look at it.