Turning brass "pin" on radiator valves

[Possom]

I watched a Youtube video on removing a standard (non-thermostatic) radiator from a wall.

I believe the first thing I have to do is tighten the brass "pins", one on each of the two non-thermostatic valves. The one one the left turned without problem. The one on the right will not turn; I have sprayed WD40 onto the joint on several occasions over several days, but it won't turn.

The radiator looks like it's from the 1980s and perhaps this valve has not been turned since it was installed!

Any suggestions on what I should do? If the radiator is removed without this tightened, I presume all the liquid in the central heating system gushes out!?

 

[Madrab]

2 options :-

Try a little bit harder with the valve (see if it will turn anticlockwise any amount too which might free it up)
or
You'll need to change it.

Is it a combi boiler you have?

 

[JohnD]

brass is a soft metal and you need a well-fitting tool to turn it without damaging the spindle.

Old, worn valves may leak unless they are tightly turned 100% open or 100% shut, and a previous owner may have done that to "cure" a leak.

Does it have a square end? A ring or open-ended spanner may grate the corners off unless it fits perfectly.

A photo may help.

If you have a knob/handle on any of your other radiator valves, you may find it is a perfect fit and will grip the spindle without damaging it.

An adjustable spanner can be used at a pinch, but for a reasonably good fit, you need a very small one so that the jaws will be almost parallel with no slop. I have one 70mm long by some major maker (cheap ones are sloppy)

It is possible to get special spanners with a square fitting, but they are rarely seen except for vehicle brakes.

If you are planning to replace the valve, for example with a TRV (a wise move) then start mentally preparing youself to remove it. If you can undo the valve on the other end, that will drain the radiator and pipe

Does your boiler have a pressure gauge on it? These are easier to work on without draining.

If you have a small feed and expansion tank in the loft, and no pressure gauge, you are likely to need to drain the system.

 

[Possom]

2 options :-
Try a little bit harder with the valve (see if it will turn anticlockwise any amount too which might free it up)

It won't budge in either direction.

You'll need to change it.

I want to completely remove the radiator and position a different rad in a slightly different location within the room. I just don't want the contents of the central heating system pouring out everywhere.

2 options :-
Is it a combi boiler you have?

Yes.

 

[Possom]

brass is a soft metal and you need a well-fitting tool to turn it without damaging the spindle.

Old, worn valves may leak unless they are tightly turned 100% open or 100% shut, and a previous owner may have done that to "cure" a leak.

Does it have a square end? A ring or open-ended spanner may grate the corners off unless it fits perfectly.

A photo may help.

If you have a knob/handle on any of your other radiator valves, you may find it is a perfect fit and will grip the spindle without damaging it.

An adjustable spanner can be used at a pinch, but for a reasonably good fit, you need a very small one so that the jaws will be almost parallel with no slop. I have one 70mm long by some major maker (cheap ones are sloppy)

It is possible to get special spanners with a square fitting, but they are rarely seen except for vehicle brakes.

If you are planning to replace the valve, for example with a TRV (a wise move) then start mentally preparing youself to remove it. If you can undo the valve on the other end, that will drain the radiator and pipe

I locked vice grips on the square tip as they lock completely tight. It won't move either direction.

If you are planning to replace the valve, for example with a TRV (a wise move) then start mentally preparing youself to remove it. If you can undo the valve on the other end, that will drain the radiator and pipe

I want to completely remove the radiator to install a new one in a different location within the room.

Does your boiler have a pressure gauge on it? These are easier to work on without draining.

If you have a small feed and expansion tank in the loft, and no pressure gauge, you are likely to need to drain the system.

Yes it has a pressure guage. No expansion tank as it's a combi boiler.

 

[JohnD]

Easy then. You can close, then undo, the first valve from the radiator. Since the second valve is still open and connected to the system, some water will dribble out of the radiator joint. It might be a bucketful or so. You can catch it using two grill pans, emulsion trays, or washing-up bowls. if you want it to come out faster, loosen the radiator valve key.

Then it will stop.

This is because it is a sealed system, and there is only one opening. The rest of the water cannot come out without causing a vacuum in the pipes.

You can then undo the nut holding the jammed valve, and lift off the radiator. Filthy sludge will come out of whichever end of the rad is lower as soon as you move it. Tip it into your bowl, then turn the radiator upside down. Since the valve-holes are now at the top, no more water will come out of it. put it down somewhere safe. Better, take it into the garden and prop it so the black sludge can come out on the soil (it is not poisonous) and, later, hose it through to clean.

The second valve will be dripping or dribbling slightly. Water will not be gushing out. Remove the old valve and see if your new valve will fit the existing nut and olive. if not, remove them* and fit your new nut and olive, then the valve. Turn the new valve off.

*this can be tiresome

 

[Possom]

Easy then. You can close, then undo, the first valve from the radiator. Since the second valve is still open and connected to the system, some water will dribble out of the radiator joint. It might be a bucketful or so. You can catch it using two grill pans, emulsion trays, or washing-up bowls. if you want it to come out faster, loosen the radiator valve key.

Then it will stop.

This is because it is a sealed system, and there is only one opening. The rest of the water cannot come out without causing a vacuum in the pipes.

You can then undo the nut holding the jammed valve, and lift off the radiator. Filthy sludge will come out of whichever end of the rad is lower as soon as you move it. Tip it into your bowl, then turn the radiator upside down. Since the valve-holes are now at the top, no more water will come out of it. put it down somewhere safe. Better, take it into the garden and prop it so the black sludge can come out on the soil (it is not poisonous) and, later, hose it through to clean.

The second valve will be dripping or dribbling slightly. Water will not be gushing out. Remove the old valve and see if your new valve will fit the existing nut and olive. if not, remove them* and fit your new nut and olive, then the valve. Turn the new valve off.

*this can be tiresome

Cheers John for this detailed info - it's very much appreciated. I'll try this out and see what happens. Thanks!

 

[alastairclark]

I sense disaster looming....
You’ll have 1.5 bar of pressure behind that nut your loosening, if your doing it that way, open the airing point first and catch it in something till it stops so your least working off zero pressure

 

[Madrab]

If you're going to move the rad then you'll need to move the pipework & chances are the valves may need to come off and the pipework drained anyway.

Shut off all the other rads, crack open one of the valves on the radiator tails and it'll start to empty, it'll stop when the pressure has bled off, then open the bleed valve, standard sized rad will give you about a bucket and a half'ish of water and it'll take a while back, fill up container (paint tray etc as others have advised), tighten nut, empty container... back and forward still it stops.

Once it's drained and rad off then you'll need to either cap and or move the pipework and then re-pressurise before you can use the boiler again.

 

[Possom]

I followed JohnD's suggestion earlier and all worked out well. Almost a bucket of liquid emptied out of the radiator and I was able to remove the rad.

 

[JohnD]

I followed JohnD's suggestion earlier and all worked out well.

(phew)

that's a relief!